Stub shaft bearing.

[TPAY243]

I wish I was on it to be able to tell you exactly what happened or if there was vibrations. We can sit and point fingers at whoever all damn day. All I can tell you is that it's broke and I don't question any of my maintainenece tactics or thunderproducts. Like I stated previously, I've had zero issues with my other machine that has way more miles. It broke a belt the day prior and then the day this happened it blew another. I think the first belt moved it enough to contact the bolts (I didn't run it personally to notice noise) then the next day when it blew the next belt it fucked it all up.
I'll run out to the trailer later and ask the secondary clutch who was the witness what happened to get the whole story.

So after you changed out the first blown belt and it got driven you should of stoped and checked things over to make sure thing's were all ok before you continued to ride that's all I'm saying we all know what happens when you blow belts on these things.

 

[yamahahaapex]

So after you changed out the first blown belt and it got driven you should of stoped and checked things over to make sure thing's were all ok before you continued to ride that's all I'm saying we all know what happens when you blow belts on these things.

We may all know what happens here on TY but when you typically blow a belt not very many people would look to checking their alignment right after that. Most of the threads I read when the SW came out many were chasing the perfect alignment mm. If it pushed in enough for the primary to make enough contact this might be the result.

I'm positive there are people out there not boosted with 61mm offsets living life to the fullest with their shaft pushed in. To me, McKabe's account of what happened that day is no different than what happened to myself boosted at 270 with a 59mm offset. It took 17kms to blow a belt and push that shaft it.

I've left the shaft in and obviously Im lucky this hasnt happened to me but you can guess what I'm doing this summer!

 

[TPAY243]

Well that's the difference between me and you. Maintaing my clutching is big on my list of must do things I check the clutch over at least once a week it only takes a minute to pull side panel and take a look see in there. You can bet that if I blow a belt, after changing it a few miles down the trail i would stop and make sure the primary clutch hasn't moved or wearing on the bolts behind the clutch. We all know what happens with these Winders when a belt is blown, it's so easy to turn up the power on these machines and almost everybody is doing it but when you do things happen and everyone wants to point the finger at everyone except themselves in all honesty I would be to embarrassed to even post pics of something like that. Again this all my personal opinion I'm not trying to affend anyone especially the Ski Doo trolls that hang out on this site.

 

[1nc 2000]

I used to remove my belt and inspect it and my clutches before every ride. Since I took apart my stub shaft and loctited the bearing in place and switched over to the nytro primary I hardly ever look at my clutches and belt unless I am trying something different in my setup.

 

[TPAY243]

I hear ya 1nc 2000 I'm stock, running stock primary in all honesty it's been working well with no problems. I did update the rollers right from the get go with the Thunder Products ones. I will probably go with a 240 or so tune next season which I will probably then install my new Viper spare clutch. My buddy however is running 300 hp tune on his 17 Winder with out any problems other than snapping belts(8JP)at will. I do believe the older clutches are stronger but I also think it has a lot to do with the way you drive them. I'm not one of those guys that clamps it to the handle bar for miles and miles either.

 

[mikextx]

tuned or not. Everyone is going to blow a belt sometime on these sidewinders and for the type of damage to occur is that not something Yamaha should be addressing by form of a recall to seat a new bearing in there with green locktite? Seeing that primary and secondary damage it's unbelievable that this is not considered to be a recall keeping safety in mind. It's great we have a site like this and are handy but surely everyone can agree the stub shaft is an issue and simple enough to correct but what's it going to take here? Aside from catching a weight in the shin is the whole primary going to have to rocket out of the machine before this is identified as being an issue? Everything about that primary and the shaft it is on should be thrown in the dumpster and why they strayed away from the Apex primary is beyond me. After all, when the Sidewinder came out most owners coming off Apex/Nytros first question was, "is it a Yamaha clutch?".

My thoughts are Yamaha is loving the revolving door parts sale after the machine is sold and it's something they are not used to with the Apex/Nytro but they are just toeing the line enough. IMO Just seems easy enough for everyone here including myself to address to resolve this yet not so for Yamaha to come to bat on? Not even going to talk about the rest of what's inside that primary either...

A long time practice of Arctic Cat. Sell you a junk sled, then keep on selling you junk parts (if they even have them) to fix said junk sled. If you dont believe it, ask yourself, why new power steering and no chaincase fix? Why BNG and no fix for the jackshaft bearing? HMMMMM. Lightening the clutch webbing on the tried and true yamaha clutch just sounds stupid. How much weight did it really save? I bet it sold a shitload of parts tho

 

[lakercr]

I've posted this information in another thread, but haven't updated my results so here goes:

My Winder clutch was hard on rollers. Running DTAY-1's on (close to) stock gearing I could take out a set in a single day if I did enough long, hard pulls. As many others have, I switched over to an Apex (RX1 actually) clutch and the roller eating was pretty much resolved. I did have one start egging out back in January of this year, and the RX clutch wasn't any quieter than the SW (which drives me nuts) so decided to try some stuff.

My stock winder fixed sheave developed a crack a few seasons back, and galled up the stub shaft when the primary spun on the stub. The clutch was rebuilt, and the stub cleaned up, and lapped. The plan for this year was to put a TAPP on, so I wanted to change out the stub for one that was perfect. Yamaha wants over $500 for this part, so I ended up using one from a 1049cc motor. If you break the Viper/Nytro stub down to just the stub itself (no bearing carrier or tone ring) it is dimensionally identical to the Sidewinder. My dealer didn't have the stock Koyo bearing in stock (63072RS) which I assumed was a C3 (additional clearance) based on the amount of radial movement I could get lifting up on the installed primary. I decided to try a normal clearance bearing for the weekend to see how it would work. The thinking was that worst case scenario I'd have premature bearing wear (new bearing had a rpm rating well in excess of 9K). Buttoned everything up, put a new set of rollers in the SW primary and fired the sled up. The primary did not make any noise at all - the typical rattling sound that all these clutches have was completely eliminated. I rode about 300kms that weekend, which included 8-10 long pulls on the lake. I was past the point where my rollers previously would have started showing signs of wear, and these were still tight. I've kept the bearing in now for over 1000kms, and just recently upgraded my primary to a TAPP. When the clutch came off, the rollers were as tight as the day I put them in. This is way beyond the point that rollers would have completely failed previously.

There's one other member here who has this bearing now and will hopefully be able to back up my findings. Unfortunately, the season has ended for him so probably won't have any results until next season. I'm not suggesting anyone goes out and tries this on their own sled yet. I'd like to get more miles on mine and have the results backed up by others whose opinion I trust.

This is a link to my SW clutch after about 600kms with the new bearing & stub. I'd just pulled it into the shop after a 93 mile trail ride when this vid was taken:

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtXBaxZL6IuUmQbIzgZ7A2XncSVU

 

[sideshowBob]

That is quiet!

 

[SidewinderConvert]

Now that's really interesting... I wonder how bearing tolerance is playing with the clutch to make the noise we all know and hate.

 

[cannondale27]

Now that's really interesting... I wonder how bearing tolerance is playing with the clutch to make the noise we all know and hate.

Maybe not letting the splines rattle against each other and transmit into clutch?

 

[lakercr]

There's only 2 variables here as I see it. The first is the spline cut on the 1049 stub vs. the stock winder. I tried to measure this with my calipers, but they're not the right tool for the job. Thinking about it now, I could perhaps try using (stacked) feeler gauges to determine what, if any, difference there is between the splines on the 2 stub shafts. If I can confirm they are the same, then I'd attribute this 100% to the new bearing, since that would be the only other thing that has been changed. There is a noticeable difference in the radial deflection of the stock bearing vs. the replacement I'm using. I can't say yet how much of the results can be attributed to the stub vs. the bearing, but will know more once another member reports back with his findings. For now, all I can say is that what I've done has completely eliminated the noise issue, and seems to have resolved the chronic roller problem as well.

 

[lakercr]

Third variable: the cut of the splines on the crankshaft end. I'd need to measure these on a winder and 1049 crank to confirm what, if any, difference there might be.

 

[Thunder Products]

A long time practice of Arctic Cat. Sell you a junk sled, then keep on selling you junk parts (if they even have them) to fix said junk sled. If you dont believe it, ask yourself, why new power steering and no chaincase fix? Why BNG and no fix for the jackshaft bearing? HMMMMM. Lightening the clutch webbing on the tried and true yamaha clutch just sounds stupid. How much weight did it really save? I bet it sold a shitload of parts tho

The difference in weight is about 1 lbs. lighter than the previous style Yamaha clutch.

Are they selling a ton of parts? You bet they are...and not just SW clutch parts, but previous style Yamaha primaries are on back order, rollers and bushings. But think about all the other items to protect your sled, bellypan protectors, clutch guards and think about how many belts have been blown in the past 3 years?

I understand the cost of tooling for a mold to make aluminum parts, I worked in machine shops and knew what foundry molds cost to make and keep going. But, when you have a part that continually keeps coming apart, dealers know about it, the customers know about it through great forums as this, part suppliers, as myself, know & did tons of testing & research on what is happening to these clutches, have called Yamaha numerous times only to hear that #1, it is a wear item, #2 there are no problems or issues from Yamaha (even though I have spent hours upon hours messaging, texting, emailing with not 1 response back....yes, these people know who I am and are even watching these threads here), #4 this issue is only going to get worse because of the more miles getting put on. This is why I am pushing so hard to get these SW clutches off of these Winders and replace with the previous style or aftermarket.

The snub shaft is yet another "brilliant" idea. Yes, let's put a floating snub shaft on the end of the crack and allow it to go back and forth, causing harmonic noise and move in causing belt & offset issues.

 

[lakercr]

Having been married to a litigation attorney for close to 20 years, I feel pretty safe in saying that you'll be sledding in July before Yamaha engages with you to discuss a potential shortcoming of their product; especially one with the potential to cause injury.

 

[mikextx]

The difference in weight is about 1 lbs. lighter than the previous style Yamaha clutch.

Are they selling a ton of parts? You bet they are...and not just SW clutch parts, but previous style Yamaha primaries are on back order, rollers and bushings. But think about all the other items to protect your sled, bellypan protectors, clutch guards and think about how many belts have been blown in the past 3 years?

I understand the cost of tooling for a mold to make aluminum parts, I worked in machine shops and knew what foundry molds cost to make and keep going. But, when you have a part that continually keeps coming apart, dealers know about it, the customers know about it through great forums as this, part suppliers, as myself, know & did tons of testing & research on what is happening to these clutches, have called Yamaha numerous times only to hear that #1, it is a wear item, #2 there are no problems or issues from Yamaha (even though I have spent hours upon hours messaging, texting, emailing with not 1 response back....yes, these people know who I am and are even watching these threads here), #4 this issue is only going to get worse because of the more miles getting put on. This is why I am pushing so hard to get these SW clutches off of these Winders and replace with the previous style or aftermarket.

The snub shaft is yet another "brilliant" idea. Yes, let's put a floating snub shaft on the end of the crack and allow it to go back and forth, causing harmonic noise and move in causing belt & offset issues.

Sometimes weight is good. Especially in the durability department. Good guys like you are whats keeping these sleds on the trails. Yamaha is more than to happy to just sell people an exact (junk) replacement part.