Team Primary on Winder secondary mocked up

[KnappAttack]

Well it can be done and rather nicely I might add. Just as I figured, the driven needs spaced out more than the Yamaha primary for the 1.5" Cat belt and wider Team stationary sheave, and either the helix or hub will need machined on the secondary to allow more secondary helix/movable travel allowing the wider Cat belt the extra width it needs. Also will need a spring with less coils to prevent spring bind in that secondary too. I will be using Cat secondary springs in the Winder driven so all will be fine for that either way.

For mockup I added .062" washers behind a DALTON helix, this just gives the secondary/helix just enough extra travel for the wider belt when thru OD at rest and not under power. I wouldn't run it this way with shims as the rollers don't even touch the helix at all, but for mockup its fine.

Angle on both the 8JP and the Cat 104 belt both used is the same as per my angle finder. The Yamaha 8JP runs at 7.95" on the Yamaha Primary and the 104 rides at 8.375" on the Cat/Team Primary, both at full OD. Yamaha clutch weighs #10 and the Team is just shy of #12. IMO the 998 needs a heavier drive clutch for flywheel effect, maybe thats why the Team makes no noise like the rattling box of bolts Yamaha drive clutch, I don't know. For certain the Team is clearanced tighter on the buttons, has no play on the rollers and weights, and is cushioned much better than the Yamaha primary with its weight bolts.

I set offset at full OD for now and the nice part is you don't have to worry about shimming the belt deflection as it will tighten the belt right up for zero deflection using the bearing on the team primary as it does on the Cat. So zero worry about deflection at idle which will be nice.

Cons? Well slightly higher belt costs, but can use Carlisle XS 827 Cat belt which is working so very well for the Cat guys. Need to buy all new weights, springs, and another new puller.

Pros, don't know for certain as I haven't run it yet, but presumed pros for certain are fiddle string tight belt deflection. Wider belt has more shift ratio from low to high & stonger tensile strength on wider belt. Will mean lower takeoff gear at start and more OD at finish. Wider rollers by 50% SHOULD mean more roller life vs. Yamaha primary. NO clutch rattle on the Team vs the Yamaha. Don't have to machine the secondary, just add an actual bit of shim to align properly.

Is it for everyone? No, I don't even know if they'll be any gains to be had, but I like to try everything for myself. I know the rollers are not lasting on the Yamaha clutch and it rattles like a SOB which I hate. I'm not even certain that I will run it yet, but I at least know it will work if I want to run it.

 

[Hammer70]

Nice work Mike can’t wait to here final outcome.

 

[AnythingButLast]

Nice work, attention to detail and good measurements!

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Great work Mike, Im glad you are messing with this. I had hoped you would sooner then later. I am so very close to this myself. Nice to know all the specifics brother.

Will see how things go with new offset for now, but I can see going this route for next year if I keep this winder longer. Just the longevity of rollers and less rattle, more mass surely helps the harmonics.

Nice work Mike!
Dan

 

[**sj**]

nice job! ...interested to see final shim stack and final hub machining for wider belt...

 

[STAIN]

the supply of affordable Team primary clutches seem to be drying up!!

 

[ROCKERDAN]

the supply of affordable Team primary clutches seem to be drying up!!

This is my concern....I should have grabbed mine last month when I got my pricing. Worried they will be all backordered...Grrr

Im going to try to get through this season on the stocker with new offset ect....Maybe next year then, if I dont jump ship altogether.

Dan

 

[STAIN]

I am not jumping ship, i would just like to get the harmonics of this clutch settled down. I think then they would last. Vibration is hard on all components, especially high frequency vibration.
I am leaning toward Daves stub shaft fix.

 

[journeyman]

Keeping an eye on this project. Nice work Mike and I hope it works out!!

Yamaha had to know that these machines were going to get flashed for bigger power. It looks like they intended to build a beefier clutch but stopped way too short.

Way back when Yamaha started building 3 cylinder 4 strokes for the sleds, a LONG TIME Yamaha mechanic and Hayday's tech told me he wasn't sure that was a good idea because of the engine harmonics. He said Yamaha ran into those issues years ago on their bike motors. Apparently all those engineers are long gone.

 

[sideshowBob]

I am not jumping ship, i would just like to get the harmonics of this clutch settled down. I think then they would last. Vibration is hard on all components, especially high frequency vibration.
I am leaning toward Daves stub shaft fix.

I was just on Hurricane's website and the stub shafts are out of stock....for my possible future requirements...I hope Hurricane hasn't stopped production of these.

 

[1049triple]

Interesting. You Mike picked up my curiosity when you talked about it in another post. If you run it let us know. I am curious if you are going to put a lot more helix like on the secondary like the CAT wich was 58 at start for 0.15'' and then straight 49 on my HC. It may be something I will try in the future. How tight is your on the sliders? Does it slide easily?

 

[KnappAttack]

Interesting. You Mike picked up my curiosity when you talked about it in another post. If you run it let us know. I am curious if you are going to put a lot more helix like on the secondary like the CAT wich was 58 at start for 0.15'' and then straight 49 on my HC. It may be something I will try in the future. How tight is your on the sliders? Does it slide easily?

No, I plan to run right around that 41-39 start range and 37-35 finish range with Sidewinder secondary same as I would with the Yamaha primary, that really doesn't change there from just switching primaries. Also plan to use a heavier secondary spring with more side pressure like the Dalton Black/Lime or EPI purple which is same as Cat sno-pro green.

The Team is snug on the sliders which I like, but by no means is it tight where it won't move or pushes hard.

 

[NYTurbo]

The snug sliders is key to the rattling issue. Doesn't affect the performance.

 

[sledding rocks]

No, I plan to run right around that 41-39 start range and 37-35 finish range with Sidewinder secondary same as I would with the Yamaha primary, that really doesn't change there from just switching primaries. Also plan to use a heavier secondary spring with more side pressure like the Dalton Black/Lime or EPI purple which is same as Cat sno-pro green.

The Team is snug on the sliders which I like, but by no means is it tight where it won't move or pushes hard.

hey mike is the dalton black /lime new ? also whats the recommend starting degrees 3-3 ?

 

[DTR 82-27]

Thanks for all your work on this, Mike. It’s great information for all of us.

To combine this with another thread going on right now, what are your thoughts on a Team primary vs. a primary off an Apex?