Tapp blowing belts compared to stock primary

[**sj**]

sooo that would be 62.5-63.5 mm outside to outside. 2.45-2.49" .... this is for TAPP and STM only cuz thicker sheaves

and pro4 also?

 

[max rolph]

STM sheave is .260 thick, BOSS is .180, i do not know the sheave thickness of PRO 4

 

[Upstater57]

Back of primary with a flat straight edge to the front of the secondary, just like Yamaha does it with the stock measurements.

I also run locked secondaries. Every time I try to float it will blow belts after a while. What I find floating is the thing is floated out and when you grab a handful of throttle the secondary refuses to float inward and is stuck outward where it wont line up at his speed. You can test this but grabbing a handful on the stand with just a little bit of brake and see the secondary wont float inward. So, no more floating whatsoever is what I'd recommend. Floating might be fine for easy trail riding where one is not always on the throttle, but not for hard performance riding IMO.

I agree regarding the float. The spline on the shaft does not allow the secondary to move back under load. The old keyed round shaft allows it to float.

 

[74Nitro]

I agree regarding the float. The spline on the shaft does not allow the secondary to move back under load. The old keyed round shaft allows it to float.

I don't think it would move on the old keyed round shaft under load.

 

[KnappAttack]

I don't think it would move on the old keyed round shaft under load.

I don’t either. It would bind even easier I thought. I’ve always locked the secondaries solid with belt alignment at full shift, until I tried floating on the Sidewinder, and every time I’ve let it float the belt breaks prematurely.

 

[sideshowBob]

I know I am probably the only one but... I have always run free floating secondaries on all my sleds including Vmax 4 mod, Improved stock Polaris, all SRX 2 stokes, Attak, Stage 2 super charged Apex, ect and now my tuned Sidewinder right from day one. After 1000s and 1000s of miles on my sleds trail and race I have never had any belt issues on any of my sleds as result of the alignment.
IMO: On the SWs, the original issues were from the secondary unable to move inward enough for proper belt alignment that I corrected before I ever rode the sled.
The only issue with floating on the SW is the secondary needs to be disassembled to shim internally to adjust belt defection the way mine is setup.
Works for me.

 

[74Nitro]

I know I am probably the only one but... I have always run free floating secondaries on all my sleds including Vmax 4 mod, Improved stock Polaris, all SRX 2 stokes, Attak, Stage 2 super charged Apex, ect and now my tuned Sidewinder right from day one. After 1000s and 1000s of miles on my sleds trail and race I have never had any belt issues on any of my sleds as result of the alignment.
IMO: On the SWs, the original issues were from the secondary unable to move inward enough for proper belt alignment that I corrected before I ever rode the sled.
The only issue with floating on the SW is the secondary needs to be disassembled to shim internally to adjust belt defection the way mine is setup.
Works for me.

The reason I don't float the secondary is because it already has a moveable sheave. Letting the fixed sheave move around also just confuses it so-to-speak.
The primary also has a moveable sheave, but even if it could be done, I don't anyone would ever consider floating that clutch.

 

[Simplespeed]

Years ago alot of secondary clutches were set up to float.. Main reason was the motors would twist and this set up would offset that… Then they started to use solid mounts and torque arms to stop motor movement .. About this time the racers figured out there was more efficiency if you eliminated the float .. They arrived at this conclusion due to less heat ( slip ) and less belt dust ( wear ) not to mention winning clutch combinations that won races.. But did they test floating with these winning combinations ??? Maybe Knapp-attack can answer this question?

 

[sideshowBob]

All my fellow Sidewinder riders in our group are amazed at my sleds lack of belt dust and how clean my clutches. A lot of tuned SWs and Tcats with secondaries setup with no float[because I am the only one that floats the secondary that I know locally] have watched me take their cash at the areas snowdrags so I don't think float or no float has any effect on performance on a properly clutched sled. Like I have said this works for me and I could setup up with no float as well but honestly its easier to float the secondary when I am dialing in one of my sleds.
I also only run an 8DN or Redline belt...I have never run the 8JP the sled came with.
Not to Jinx myself but I don't think many people running a 300hp tuned 998 for many seasons on the trail and drag racing with thousands of miles can say they have never had a belt issue.
Everyone is different and I like to stick with what I know and I have always done my own thing...LOL...sometimes to my detriment.

 

[74Nitro]

All my fellow Sidewinder riders in our group are amazed at my sleds lack of belt dust and how clean my clutches. A lot of tuned SWs and Tcats with secondaries setup with no float[because I am the only one that floats the secondary that I know locally] have watched me take their cash at the areas snowdrags so I don't think float or no float has any effect on performance on a properly clutched sled. Like I have said this works for me and I could setup up with no float as well but honestly its easier to float the secondary when I am dialing in one of my sleds.
I also only run an 8DN or Redline belt...I have never run the 8JP the sled came with.
Not to Jinx myself but I don't think many people running a 300hp tuned 998 for many seasons on the trail and drag racing with thousands of miles can say they have never had a belt issue.
Everyone is different and I like to stick with what I know and I have always done my own thing...LOL...sometimes to my detriment.

If it's working for you Bob then leave that weapon like it is. Are you still riding? Lots of snow?

 

[REDLINE 1]

All my fellow Sidewinder riders in our group are amazed at my sleds lack of belt dust and how clean my clutches. A lot of tuned SWs and Tcats with secondaries setup with no float[because I am the only one that floats the secondary that I know locally] have watched me take their cash at the areas snowdrags so I don't think float or no float has any effect on performance on a properly clutched sled. Like I have said this works for me and I could setup up with no float as well but honestly it’s easier to float the secondary when I am dialing in one of my sleds.
I also only run an 8DN or Redline belt...I have never run the 8JP the sled came with.
Not to Jinx myself but I don't think many people running a 300hp tuned 998 for many seasons on the trail and drag racing with thousands of miles can say they have never had a belt issue.
Everyone is different and I like to stick with what I know and I have always done my own thing...LOL...sometimes to my detriment.

is it possible to float the stock secondary on T cat? My 2018 has that funky secondary where the outer shieve is bolted (fixed) to the end of the jack shaft and the shims are added between the inner and outer shieves to set the offset. I don’t see any way that could be floated without replacing with a conventional aftermarket secondary

 

[sideshowBob]

If it's working for you Bob then leave that weapon like it is. Are you still riding? Lots of snow?

I was away for all of Feb on a Euro vacation and came back to a fresh 10" of snow! So yes we are still riding. All good here

 

[Simplespeed]

All my fellow Sidewinder riders in our group are amazed at my sleds lack of belt dust and how clean my clutches. A lot of tuned SWs and Tcats with secondaries setup with no float[because I am the only one that floats the secondary that I know locally] have watched me take their cash at the areas snowdrags so I don't think float or no float has any effect on performance on a properly clutched sled. Like I have said this works for me and I could setup up with no float as well but honestly its easier to float the secondary when I am dialing in one of my sleds.
I also only run an 8DN or Redline belt...I have never run the 8JP the sled came with.
Not to Jinx myself but I don't think many people running a 300hp tuned 998 for many seasons on the trail and drag racing with thousands of miles can say they have never had a belt issue.
Everyone is different and I like to stick with what I know and I have always done my own thing...LOL...sometimes to my detriment.

Have you ever taken actual temperature of both clutches after a hard run… Would be some good information for the site ? If it works … then it works end of story and thats all that matters…

 

[max rolph]

is it possible to float the stock secondary on T cat? My 2018 has that funky secondary where the outer shieve is bolted (fixed) to the end of the jack shaft and the shims are added between the inner and outer shieves to set the offset. I don’t see any way that could be floated without replacing with a conventional aftermarket secondary

you cannot float A team BOSS, proper alignment on a BOSS is 1.500 from outter flat surface of sec to hub of primary at the stationary inner sheave with old conventional "Z" tool. used to be 1.530 but just read on service manual for t-cat 1.500

 

[KnappAttack]

Have you ever taken actual temperature of both clutches after a hard run… Would be some good information for the site ? If it works … then it works end of story and thats all that matters…

Well its not really the end of the story. I have a sled that hooks and books and can not for the life of me float the secondary and keep a belt on it and keep from breaking it. When I lock it down, belts last forever. I've done it both ways and come to this conclusion. But my sled hooks so hard on the hard pack that it shudders and shakes the chassis if it does spin.

I'm guessing that Bob may run a track that doesn't have studs perhaps and spins more, I say this because I believe he drag races on a snow track from what I've seen where studs will do nothing. When you load the driveline if you are floating the secondary and its floated outward, it will stay stuck outward until you take the load off of it, I dont care how easily it moves and the shaft is greased up. You can easily see this on the track dyno or using the brake on the stand to load the clutches if you look at the secondary. Track slippage like you get in snow may allow the clutch to float easier inward is my guess, but do whatever works for you and prevents belts from breaking. The thing is, different conditions will require different setups, so what works for one may not work for all obviously.