Thinking about..........jumping ship

[ROCKERDAN]

Great thread and I agree with alot said here. I think Mike and I feel pretty much the same as we are also longtime DOO guys as well as YAM guys.

Problem I have is, we are all now spoiled with BIG trail power......the way my Winder pulls at the snap of throttle is addicting and cannot be replaced by ANYTHING ELSE available today.

While I can appreciate the 2s XRS Doos, since I swap with buds who own 850s and 600XRSs and I will tell you these sleds make you feel 16 yrs old and I can pound them thru 4 footers without breaking a sweat, while the Winder will make you soaked with sweat within minutes.

But every 2s I have owned has ended up on a tow rope with blown engine. Sure my buds will say 4 yr warranty. So if you trade up enough you are fine, but you still have downtime waiting for new engine and resale with 2s when they get over 3000 miles or so is horrible. Also you cannot mod a 2s for fear of blowing up and warranty is out window with mods.

With a 4s miles and resale is a non issue, engine lasting 20k miles or lots more is the norm. Power can be made safely and fun to mod these turbos, huge massive power unheard of with any 2s. But you can still end up on tow rope with the CAT DNA in these Winders.

So is the CAT DNA, and extra weight in the twistys worth it to own the big power and offer that true giggle factor at every hit of the flipper? At the moment Im not so sure(see my thread on chaincase) but before this mishap I sure was willing to stick with this big power, as I was having a killer fun winter so far.

Which brings in the 900t.....Im with Mike on this one, the 900t is just a turd of an engine that DOO has used to fill in where the 1200 was. YES it does exactly what BRP wanted it to do. You can tell by the way BRP clutched it out of the box.

PROS: 900t
4s DOO reliable
Dave has a tune, YES.
Is it then faster then an 850, YES.(tuned)
Does it handle better then a Winder,YES.
Does BRP finally offers their XRS shocks on a 4s,YES.

CONS: 900t
Engine is not the 998 turbo we are used to
iTC is a compensation for a terrible long intake design DOO just wont change
Definitely NOT gonna win any beauty contest, and I want to like what Im looking at for this much cash
No 129 offering
Tuned 900t's are not making very good MPH(top end)
Some issues arising I see are vents need frogskins as many are having frozen steering issues
Needs clutch work at minimum a secondary spring
possible oil issues into intake(PCV) and a few other oil seal type issues


So do you stay with a poorly engineered complete rocket or step down to a more trail friendly sled that may have decent power but likely more reliable over time, albeit ugly as sin IMO, Id really need to work on the look.lol

I think the next few weeks for me will help me decide, the '20s will be released online within 4 weeks so I will have a handle on where YAM and Cat are heading....I dont see DOO doing much of anything but BNG and hopefully new guages and lighting but BRP probably just wants to keep sucking their customers dry selling LEDs..lol

Dan

 

[JayM]

I think a 900T in a MXZX 129" would be appealing that's for sure. Otherwise there's nothing really out there right now unless something crazy is announced and if that's the case I'm sticking with this thing at least another season and will go over EVERYTHING in the off season.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I think a 900T in a MXZX 129" would be appealing that's for sure. Otherwise there's nothing really out there right now unless something crazy is announced and if that's the case I'm sticking with this thing at least another season and will go over EVERYTHING in the off season.

Im really hoping YAM has updates for the Winder, or maybe a next GEN chassie with a 998...now that could get me excited.

Dan

 

[JayM]

Im really hoping YAM has updates for the Winder, or maybe a next GEN chassie with a 998...now that could get me excited.

Dan

Same here, I guess we'll see soon enough! Meantime I'm spending a week in Timmins starting Friday and will enjoy this beast!

 

[rnusr01]

Im really hoping YAM has updates for the Winder, or maybe a next GEN chassie with a 998...now that could get me excited.

Dan

That would give me a CHUBBY

 

[GAS]

I'm thinking of a xrs 900T as well.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Same here, I guess we'll see soon enough! Meantime I'm spending a week in Timmins starting Friday and will enjoy this beast!

Just be sure to go over sled before any trips....Im anal about this stuff and still had a trip ruined, which ruins not only my weekend but anyone else with me. Grrr

Dan

 

[Mototown]

Just this week a second turbo ace owner I know being totally unhappy with it coming off of a 18 850 skidoo, ran the turbo for a weekend went right back to the dealer wanted his 850 back. The other traded the sled in on a 4 wheeler . I will be surprised if Yamaha updates the sidewinder in 2020 , I'm thinking it's a 2 stroke for next year in a new chassis.

 

[1049triple]

As we go faster, we are becoming alot more demanding. I remember hating my Nytro for handling, then test drove a XP and a IQ. Was really happy to get back on the seat of my Blue girl. I test drove my buddy 4 Gen BRP and never been impressed beside the weight transfert wich is exagerated. 1200 doo was a good one but the electronic throttle remove a lot of the fun factor. The Viper feeled way more fun to me. IMO Polaris have a good chassis, but for my type of riding I wont buy a 2s for that much trail. And I really like to have that 4 stroke winder engine screming in the deep stuff. I like that engine everywhere. Well if we talk Yama/Cat, I dont know why they never though about upgrading that poor design chaincase. They also need to work on the driveshaft and jackshaft to make things live longers, I am talking bearings areas. Actually I have the sled I need and dont think about changing for the next 2 years. Having a 270hp sled with 141 skid capable of going wherever I want with fun is all I want. But, yes I agree, we need to inspect carefully for parts that can break anytime. If Yamaha come with a new redesigned chassis, with better reliability, smaller and lower more toward trail, I may get one. For now, there is no other alternative for me.

 

[WillowAce]

Great thread and I agree with alot said here. I think Mike and I feel pretty much the same as we are also longtime DOO guys as well as YAM guys.

Problem I have is, we are all now spoiled with BIG trail power......the way my Winder pulls at the snap of throttle is addicting and cannot be replaced by ANYTHING ELSE available today.

While I can appreciate the 2s XRS Doos, since I swap with buds who own 850s and 600XRSs and I will tell you these sleds make you feel 16 yrs old and I can pound them thru 4 footers without breaking a sweat, while the Winder will make you soaked with sweat within minutes.

But every 2s I have owned has ended up on a tow rope with blown engine. Sure my buds will say 4 yr warranty. So if you trade up enough you are fine, but you still have downtime waiting for new engine and resale with 2s when they get over 3000 miles or so is horrible. Also you cannot mod a 2s for fear of blowing up and warranty is out window with mods.

With a 4s miles and resale is a non issue, engine lasting 20k miles or lots more is the norm. Power can be made safely and fun to mod these turbos, huge massive power unheard of with any 2s. But you can still end up on tow rope with the CAT DNA in these Winders.

So is the CAT DNA, and extra weight in the twistys worth it to own the big power and offer that true giggle factor at every hit of the flipper? At the moment Im not so sure(see my thread on chaincase) but before this mishap I sure was willing to stick with this big power, as I was having a killer fun winter so far.

Which brings in the 900t.....Im with Mike on this one, the 900t is just a turd of an engine that DOO has used to fill in where the 1200 was. YES it does exactly what BRP wanted it to do. You can tell by the way BRP clutched it out of the box.

PROS: 900t
4s DOO reliable
Dave has a tune, YES.
Is it then faster then an 850, YES.(tuned)
Does it handle better then a Winder,YES.
Does BRP finally offers their XRS shocks on a 4s,YES.

CONS: 900t
Engine is not the 998 turbo we are used to
iTC is a compensation for a terrible long intake design DOO just wont change
Definitely NOT gonna win any beauty contest, and I want to like what Im looking at for this much cash
No 129 offering
Tuned 900t's are not making very good MPH(top end)
Some issues arising I see are vents need frogskins as many are having frozen steering issues
Needs clutch work at minimum a secondary spring
possible oil issues into intake(PCV) and a few other oil seal type issues


So do you stay with a poorly engineered complete rocket or step down to a more trail friendly sled that may have decent power but likely more reliable over time, albeit ugly as sin IMO, Id really need to work on the look.lol

I think the next few weeks for me will help me decide, the '20s will be released online within 4 weeks so I will have a handle on where YAM and Cat are heading....I dont see DOO doing much of anything but BNG and hopefully new guages and lighting but BRP probably just wants to keep sucking their customers dry selling LEDs..lol

Dan

My question is this; How do you get over that thing they call a throttle Doo puts on the 900T?

 

[Crossfire12]

Yamaha never could or Will build a chassis for 2020, look at all the mods for the nitro,apex,rx1 etc. it’s good this way if it doesn’t ride good or break we can blame it on Cat not Yamaha, before no one.

 

[Swampfox]

My question is this; How do you get over that thing they call a throttle Doo puts on the 900T?

This is also my problem. I love my sidewinder, but would like to add the 900t. My wife rides a 1200 now and we are going to update it. But I can never get used to the throttle on it. That’s probably the only thing holding me back from getting one for her. Seems like when I want the 1200 to move it takes half the throttle. Then I bump it while getting on it and it takes off on me.

 

[putz21]

Was riding with my bro tonight and he was riding his 900t behind me and all I hear on my headset is, “I think I am on fire, you better come here quick!”

Smoke was pouring out of his hood with holes blown through the top and on back side of cowling. Blew the chain case right apart!

 

[4strokes]

While I understand that it's all opinion and how you feel on the sled, I'd like to think my $0.02 will help you in your decision.

I came off a 2010 Phazer GT to a brand spanking new 2014 SR Viper XTX SE (way back when they first came out). After having access to my father's RX-1 and Apex for years, the SR Viper felt like the right sled for me (enough power to keep me happy, but not too much where I got into trouble - though that happened from time to time). The SR Viper was excellent for what I used it for and Yamaha stood behind every warranty claim I put in. I absolutely abused the sled (2' to 3' moguls for hours on end at 75+ mph will eventually take it's toll and stuff did break). Yamaha was always there with new parts and footed every bill. The only time I was actually stranded was when the exhaust decided to pop a rivet and start melting - towed it back to the dealership and Yamaha replaced all the melted plastic, put in a new exhaust, and changed the oil from the burnt lines (I literally paid $0 for thousands of dollars in repairs in the 4 years I beat the living daylights out of it). While I know it's not great to hear "thousands of dollars in repairs" for a single snowmobile - trust me when I say the parts that broke should have done just that for the way I ride. And Yamaha was always there - that's the type of company I stand behind.

This past April, after 9,000+ brutal miles and many great experiences, it came time to look for a new steed to replace the tired girl. I looked at all four manufacturers and tried out whatever I could swing my leg over (basically everything but the 850 Patriot - they didn't exist in the wild yet). Coming off the SR Viper and various Apex models, I loved the four stroke torque and that's what I looked for - that arm stretching pull from corner to corner. I also wanted something that could sit quite happily at 80+ mph for long periods of time without missing a beat. I narrowed my search down to a SideWinder (model to be determined at that point) and the Ski-Doo Renegade X 850 E-TEC. But I'll be honest with you, I was REALLY disappointed by that 850. It felt boring to me and the handling wasn't as godly as everyone made it seem - it handled the same as my SR Viper and felt no faster (in fact, it felt slower - not that I could tell because the analog speedometer wasn't working and didn't know how to scroll through the menu otherwise). After taking on ride on a SideWinder, I was hooked. After going through the paperwork with the Ski-Doo dealership, they also showed that warranty work has a deductible (which is unheard of in our world) and they wouldn't take my SR Viper on trade since it wasn't a BRP product.

That's how I picked up my 2019 SideWinder XTX LE. I just got home from putting the 1,600th mile (give or take a few) on it this past weekend and I couldn't be happier with my decision. The handling is incredible - flat cornering, incredible acceleration and deep snow capability, comfortable ergonomics, a top-of-the-line shock package, and that heated seat is amazing (plus the Stealth controls are pretty damn nice). Sure, there are some things I'm going to change (4th wheel kit and longer snow flap off the top of my head), but nothing that's really going to break the bank. I have no interest in boosting power more than stock because that's when stuff starts to break - no different than "chipping" my truck. Hitting a deer at 120 mph is going to hurt just as much as hitting it at 105 mph. My belt hasn't broken. My dealership replaced two of the turbo bolts with easier to use hex heads if I ever need to take the muffler off.

I think the snowmobile is all in what you make of it. For me, that 850 was a dog - terribly disappointing. The electronic throttle on the Ski-Doo four strokes would drive me nuts. The starter on any Polaris sounds like you're trying to grind marbles in a food blender. I never had 99% of the issues found here and on other sites common to the sleds developed through the Arctic Cat/Yamaha partnership. I'm one of the (probably) few people who are glad this partnership came along. In 6 clasps and unplugging the speedometer connection, I have complete access to my motor - that's pretty important to me.

I hope this helps with your decision and look forward to see what you pick up (even it's not a Yamaha )!

I have been looking for a longer flap. have you found one? I did the larson axle. very nice with 6205 bearings

 

[74Nitro]

View attachment 146580 Was riding with my bro tonight and he was riding his 900t behind me and all I hear on my headset is, “I think I am on fire, you better come here quick!”

Smoke was pouring out of his hood with holes blown through the top and on back side of cowling. Blew the chain case right apart!

Wow, so Doo has chaincase issues too!