Thinking about tunes - one tune? flasher? jukebox?

[Avenged7x]

Greetings TY,

I've been mulling over tune options since I bought the Winder at the start of season. Quite surprised I've been able to stick it thru a whole season and 3000 miles with the "I'm going to keep it stock... well at least for the first year" theory.

I've ready plenty of debate about the various suppliers of tunes available, I'm convinced there at several providers most if not all of which are site sponsors here where you simply cannot go wrong, reliable and great performing options. It is awesome that we have so many great options available to us, especially that many are providing Canadian horsepower

What I haven't found as much information on is whether or not to go with one single tune and stick with that, or if guys are finding benefit and value from having the flasher option to try different tunes and/or the jukebox options as well for even greater flexibility.

My initial thought was to decide on one tune and stick with that. Likely one of the 265-275 ish options with an aftermarket exhaust (albeit one of the quieter options), maybe cold air and clutch for that power level . This is likely the most cost effective option and a "set it and forget it" approach which I do like. However locally options are limited for tuners, so this likely means sending the ECU out, which I've done on other toys in the past without issue however it's still a bit of a hassle, and you don't really ever recover the cost of tuning when you move to a new toy. There is also the option of adding a bit of gear to it down the road to increase top speed once it stops scaring you enough.

So I have been considering investing in the flasher to get the ability to do it myself and maybe tinker a bit. However at the end of the day I think the chances of me ever running a lower HP tune than my set-up can reliably and consistently handle on 91 Octane are probably somewhere between slim and none. If anyone can provide points as to why you like taking a step down in power at time, I'm certainly all ears. I haven't heard much support that the "Eco" tunes are any easier on fuel - any comments on that? Given the significant difference between power levels I'd also expect significant changes to clutching would be required simultaneously for this to be worthwhile. The cost of the flasher is fairly significant so it probably outweighs the convenience if you aren't going to change tunes, but it does give you flexibility and the ability to always run the latest and greatest version of your current tune. Have tunes really evolved improved that much that you want to keep the latest version? If you purchase a flasher is it (or the tunes you also buy) locked to your VIN? or can you later recoup some of the cost by flashing your next Winder or selling the flasher and tunes to a buddy?

The Jukebox option seems even less practical for the same reasons as the flasher. I can't see myself tinkering with clutch weights on the side of the trail, typically I prefer to have a refreshment and heckle the guys that are trying to do trailside tuning or repairs. However from a cost perspective, once you've invested in a flasher, the extra tunes and Jukebox aren't a big investment, so little that the it may be justified for the once or twice a year lake day when you maybe you are willing to throw a gallon or two of 110 in and see what she'll do on a higher boost tune.

Would love to hear feedback from guys who have first hand experience with a few of these options. I guess this likely boils down to old "practicability vs. fun factor" debate which most of us who purchase 200hp sleds in the first place may or may already struggle with, let alone those that aren't satisfied with that. It's a sickness but there are far worse addictions out there!

 

[DMCTurbo]

Welcome!!


Last season I told myself I'm leaving it stock LOL, that lasted half the season. I purchased the TD powertrail flash. I sent my ECU to my local TD dealer. At the beginning of this season I purchased the flasher cable and tune bundle. I received a discount on the tune bundle because I had already purchased a tune. I now run the Jukebox which in my case includes ECOtrail, Powertrail and MAX17. I love having the ability to change tunes at will however 99% of the time from now on I'll be running MAX17 unless I suspect bad fuel. Having the flasher cable allows you access to all the updates and I'm sure there will be more exciting features coming soon.

Another benefit of having the flasher cable is you can flash your buddies sleds as long as they purchase a tune.

In my opinion if its within your budget go with the flasher cable and a tune bundle.


FWIW my 2 cents.

Derek

 

[WinterWolf]

Hey great post Avenged7x.

I too am contemplating a tune. I think though...I’m the guy who just wants to set and forget it. I love the sled now (18 RTX 50th). I put 1361 miles on it this season...and it got stronger as the miles increased. It is stock...and I don’t want to lose reliability with a tune..or have to stress about bad gas all the time. However, if I’m gonna bite the bullet and tune this beast, it’s gotta be worthwhile(meaning a significant difference from stock).

I’m thinking TD Powertrail tune...or something along those lines. I heard they(TD) have very quiet mufflers also that can be added where they are not much louder than the stock set up.

Something to contemplate over the off season I guess...still not sure if I should make the jump?? But feel myself getting the sickness...dam I thought I was immune...WTH??? Lol

 

[DMCTurbo]

Hey great post Avenged7x.

I too am contemplating a tune. I think though...I’m the guy who just wants to set and forget it. I love the sled now (18 RTX 50th). I put 1361 miles on it this season...and it got stronger as the miles increased. It is stock...and I don’t want to lose reliability with a tune..or have to stress about bad gas all the time. However, if I’m gonna bite the bullet and tune this beast, it’s gotta be worthwhile(meaning a significant difference from stock).

I’m thinking TD Powertrail tune...or something along those lines. I heard they(TD) have very quiet mufflers also that can be added where they are not much louder than the stock set up.

Something to contemplate over the off season I guess...still not sure if I should make the jump?? But feel myself getting the sickness...dam I thought I was immune...WTH??? Lol

TD has a stock muffler max16 tune.

 

[Avenged7x]

Welcome!!


Last season I told myself I'm leaving it stock LOL, that lasted half the season. I purchased the TD powertrail flash. I sent my ECU to my local TD dealer. At the beginning of this season I purchased the flasher cable and tune bundle. I received a discount on the tune bundle because I had already purchased a tune. I now run the Jukebox which in my case includes ECOtrail, Powertrail and MAX17. I love having the ability to change tunes at will however 99% of the time from now on I'll be running MAX17 unless I suspect bad fuel. Having the flasher cable allows you access to all the updates and I'm sure there will be more exciting features coming soon.

Another benefit of having the flasher cable is you can flash your buddies sleds as long as they purchase a tune.

In my opinion if its within your budget go with the flasher cable and a tune bundle.


FWIW my 2 cents.

Derek

Thank you for the response, some of your other test and tuning threads have also provided great information.

I'm fairly certain that I'd end up in that same situation with Jukebox, I've yet to ever drive or touch anything where I thought "You know it'd be nice to have a tad less power". The TD PT or comparable tunes do seem like a no-brainer to me as they have proven to provide stock-like reliability on 91 octane, I can't see myself ever using anything less (unless ECO was significantly better on fuel than other options) and of course is there is more power available on demand then why not use it. I'm also thinking that peak HP is comparable enough between PT and Max17 that you can find a middle ground clutching option where PT works great and Max17 does as well but is able to pull a bit more OD. We have a great trail system here and it is routine to need to buy fuel on the trail but it is typically fresh 91, I don't have any interest in needing to carry Octane Boost on a regular basis.

So if I understand correctly the flasher cable can be used on multiple sleds (not sure I want to make any of my buddies faster though) so I guess the tunes (or bundles) must be attached to the VIN.

Budget is somewhat of a factor, but coming off a 1200 with a few thousand invested into performance adders the HP/$ ratio of any options available to us is damn good value. The ability to be able to do everything yourself and stay on top of updates (or maybe hotter tunes) and new features is certainly a big selling point.

 

[WinterWolf]

TD has a stock muffler max16 tune.

Yes, I’m considering this...as it keeps the Winder very stealthy...no sound difference and everything looks stock Under hood. No issues with wardens due to loud exhaust.

 

[HUNT 24/7]

Seeing that your also from New Brunswick, I personally would want to be able to turn down the HP in case I got into some bad gas. There are lots of above ground fuel tanks & places that only sell 87 gas in NB & not a lot of us poor NB'ers don't run 91 in our vehicles so it could be months old even at a big gas station. Id obviously run good 91 & keep a can of Torco on the sled but ive been low on gas & had to fill up at sketchy gas stations before & ended up with water in my tank. Just something you might want to consider, good luck with the tune! Im jealous! Haha

 

[74Nitro]

Thank you for the response, some of your other test and tuning threads have also provided great information.

I'm fairly certain that I'd end up in that same situation with Jukebox, I've yet to ever drive or touch anything where I thought "You know it'd be nice to have a tad less power". The TD PT or comparable tunes do seem like a no-brainer to me as they have proven to provide stock-like reliability on 91 octane, I can't see myself ever using anything less (unless ECO was significantly better on fuel than other options) and of course is there is more power available on demand then why not use it. I'm also thinking that peak HP is comparable enough between PT and Max17 that you can find a middle ground clutching option where PT works great and Max17 does as well but is able to pull a bit more OD. We have a great trail system here and it is routine to need to buy fuel on the trail but it is typically fresh 91, I don't have any interest in needing to carry Octane Boost on a regular basis.

So if I understand correctly the flasher cable can be used on multiple sleds (not sure I want to make any of my buddies faster though) so I guess the tunes (or bundles) must be attached to the VIN.

Budget is somewhat of a factor, but coming off a 1200 with a few thousand invested into performance adders the HP/$ ratio of any options available to us is damn good value. The ability to be able to do everything yourself and stay on top of updates (or maybe hotter tunes) and new features is certainly a big selling point.

You may not notice a difference between PT and max 17 unless you change the blow-off valve. I didn't.

 

[74Nitro]

Yes, I’m considering this...as it keeps the Winder very stealthy...no sound difference and everything looks stock Under hood. No issues with wardens due to loud exhaust.

Guys, my experience with SM PT was that I lost measurable top end compared to SQ PT.
I would at least go with the stock modified muffler. Just sayin.

 

[DMCTurbo]

You may not notice a difference between PT and max 17 unless you change the blow-off valve. I didn't.

Yes I had the same situation. My stock BOV was leaking at 15.4 PSI.

 

[DMCTurbo]

Guys, my experience with SM PT was that I lost measurable top end compared to SQ PT.
I would at least go with the stock modified muffler. Just sayin.

I don't really find my TD SQ to be any louder than the average sled on the trail. A great exhaust in my opinion.

 

[WinterWolf]

Max 16 is made for Stock Muffler...designed to work that way with Stock Muffler was my point I guess. If I was to go with the TD Powertrail Tune...I'd probably go with the SuperQuiet Muffler too..for better flow I'm thinking....

 

[74Nitro]

Guys, my experience with SM PT was that I lost measurable top end compared to SQ PT.
I would at least go with the stock modified muffler. Just sayin.

Don't know if I was being clear, but the PT SM tune was not the same tune as PT SQ

 

[Fleecer]

My 5 cents:

Max 17 is at way better on fuel than ecotrail.

I only want to go up in power, never down.

Get to gas pump I suspect has bad gas, I'm not going to tune down, then change weights in the parking lot while my buddies call me a fool. I carry two cans of torco in tunnel bag....quicker to dump full bottle into tank of 87 and keep on truckin!!

I have stock mod muffler, SQ, and OSP Racing (same as turboflow) and SQ is my favorite by far.

I always send my ecu in summer. Sled ain't moving, shops are slow and discounts available.

When I'm in an old age home and a CNA is wiping my #*$&@, I'll be happy that I that I did not tune my sled as now the state has more money to rob from me.......NOT!!!

Go big or go home!!!

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Hurricane for me works incredible. I did not have such luck with the other tune. Corner to corner is where the Hurricane tunes are incredibly powerful, and is backed up by dyno sheet.

I got all my tunes(Jukebox) for price of one during the sale, so that is a no brainer. Also having the new handlebar switch is amazing IMO. Once you start to see how each tune is different with 'same weight' corner to corner, you will see what I mean with the switching.

I have used many mufflers, on winders and 1100s. All are plain LOUD for trails, and will beg for tickets in Ontario/Qc. The TD SQ I run is very very quiet, only a tad louder at idle is all. If you want to keep your stock muffler untouched, Hurricane offers a stock 'replica' for a great price, saving your stocker at same cost is well worth it if I did it all over again. Trying to run stock muffler with a tuned up ECU IMO is a waist. You really need to breath out if you expect to breath in, and when there are so many amazing replica/modded QUIET options out there, it just makes sense.

Also with the flasher I like the idea of retaining my stock MAP, if I ever feel the need to instantly flash it back to stock and toss on stock muffler, I can.

Now with handlebar switch, and HP/TUNE displayed on stock gauges or your BOOST displayed on stock Gauge(Hour Meter line) we are really getting good. GAP is also bringing other items into play too. If I was doing it all over again, I would look heavily into another tuner(Precision EFI) As they have some incredible tech and power up there in Qc, some very smart people there.

But for now, Im super glad I went over to Hurricane as most the guys who want the big power did this season. I complained over and over in 17 about whimpy tunes corner to corner, but once I went to Hurricane I was satisfied.

Only thing Id be aware of is, you will likely dramatically reduce your belt life...and this is the issue we are up against now when you pound these big maps corner to corner. Knapp and I talk alot about this, and Im sure he will chime in.

Having the extras is well worth it IMO over a single tune. Not to mention you get the APP so you can have your phone or ipad display all the goods if you like. The knock protection brings on a whole new safety net, and allows for running of 87 octane(trail speeds) as you can monitor your knock now. But Be aware you cant hold it WOT for more then a second or two max. All reasons to have choice with maps, and where the handlebar switch comes into play. GAP had me test their prototype switch in Qc and it works flawless. Its hard to beat this sled when tuned with GAP tech. Just nothing like it out there.

Dan