Mad_Dog
Newbie
Are the changes in the new Nytro MTX SE enough or would it be better to buy a 08/09 that are now way cheaper and upgrade sled and front-end?
jrusher
Extreme
08 or 09 forsure!! The coin you save you could put a decent track under it and a rear skid and some good front shocks,, drop 40 lbs easily..
Nikolai
TY 4 Stroke God
08/09
it's funny when you look at the nytro line up, looks like yamaha watched all the mountain guys and took a page from this person, from that person and incorperated it into the 2010 units.
nice to know they are listening. ski
nice to know they are listening. ski
looks like most of our sleds...
dont waste the money on 2010, lots of great deals on 08's and 09's
and if you hunt for it, you will find them with more stuff than the SE, and lighter, and more dialed in...
dont waste the money on 2010, lots of great deals on 08's and 09's
and if you hunt for it, you will find them with more stuff than the SE, and lighter, and more dialed in...
While I'll concede they did the stuff for 2010 that should have been done in 08, had they actually tested the sled in anything but hardpack, they've still left 50 lbs on the table. A 20 lb weight reduction is pretty lame. I really don't know what the hell they are doing but they must have nobody who actually rides mountain sleds on their team. If the price was more reasonable the 2010 would save some time but you are still going to have to throw some cash at it. Same huge battery, same big a$$ muffler, improved Maverick we'll see on that one, steel drop brackets blah blah blah. IMO yah the 2010 looks way better than the 08/09 but for less money you can get an 08 and kick the 2010 all over the mountain just by virtue of tha fact that you'll be 50 lbs lighter minimum.
Where they completely missed the point is in the power department. They are recyling the Apex for another season stateside but here in Canada the Nytro is the big boy sled, give me a break like you're going to be in the hunt against an M1000 or XP, NOT. I love my Nytro but it'll never high mark a properly set up XP and this coming from a guy who doesn't even like Doo's. I've got a turbo sled and love it, but the first answer from guys is "Ya but you can slap a turbo on the Nytro and voila", point is you shouldn't have to, it should be a choice rather than a necessity to be competitive.
If they'd have brought out the 2010 with say even 155 hp they'd have something. Here on one hand they call the 130 Hp Gensis a 600 class motor for racing but they are trying to sell it as the big mountain tamer. What a joke, do they think we are stupid?
This economic downturn really hit in the last 6 months or so. Last weekend I was watching a program on TV and they were interviewing a guy from Cat and they showed the development process of a new sled. The Cat guy said it takes a full 3 years to develop a sled from the ground up, so with that in mind then the Apex which is basically an Rx1 was started in 2000. By my calculations that makes the Deltabox chassis 10 seasons old so don't be trying to tell me thats state of the art. I really don't see how they can't of had something better already in the works, cause if they don't the blue faithfull are screwed cause its already too late.
Rant over
Rx1M5
Where they completely missed the point is in the power department. They are recyling the Apex for another season stateside but here in Canada the Nytro is the big boy sled, give me a break like you're going to be in the hunt against an M1000 or XP, NOT. I love my Nytro but it'll never high mark a properly set up XP and this coming from a guy who doesn't even like Doo's. I've got a turbo sled and love it, but the first answer from guys is "Ya but you can slap a turbo on the Nytro and voila", point is you shouldn't have to, it should be a choice rather than a necessity to be competitive.
If they'd have brought out the 2010 with say even 155 hp they'd have something. Here on one hand they call the 130 Hp Gensis a 600 class motor for racing but they are trying to sell it as the big mountain tamer. What a joke, do they think we are stupid?
This economic downturn really hit in the last 6 months or so. Last weekend I was watching a program on TV and they were interviewing a guy from Cat and they showed the development process of a new sled. The Cat guy said it takes a full 3 years to develop a sled from the ground up, so with that in mind then the Apex which is basically an Rx1 was started in 2000. By my calculations that makes the Deltabox chassis 10 seasons old so don't be trying to tell me thats state of the art. I really don't see how they can't of had something better already in the works, cause if they don't the blue faithfull are screwed cause its already too late.
Rant over
Rx1M5
r0tax
Pro
looks like some good changes.. but not enough.
there taking steps in the right direction though.
but i'm guessing they'll try to keep dropping a few lbs here n there each year till a new chassis is ready.. dropping 15 now..15 later...and so on.
i think yamaha will be one of the last ones to "really" care about (or cater to) the mtn riders.. they don't make their big money on snowmobiles, let alone the small percentage of mountain sleds they sell, so why would they care.
to a big company, all they are after is $, $ makes the world go round, right...
so why spend thousands and millions (or billions) of R&D $ that they'll never get back out, or make a profit on.
THIS is how i see it anyway, and this is why I believe a lot of the manufactures don't care and won't care about such a small and now dying market (mtn sleds)..
lower attack angle is nice, what'd they do? d/r? set back?
tapered tunnel is nice..why they couldn't figure that one out in 08...i dunno.
floats all around, is nice, one thing i've been wondering about and now they did it.
only a 15 lb wt loss...not quite enough...but its a start.
still a maverick...wth wouldnt they use a KNOWN good Challenger Extreme though...why is everyone trying to reinvent the wheel per-say?
did they fix the pos oil cans? thats more imporant than the handwarmers that can be fixed with ~30$.
did they fix the oil breather dumping oil all over?
rather see some of the serious issues fixed/resolved first..
i guess it goes back to, do these ppl even have mtn riders working in the division? lol do they get off the gd trails? do they do any pow turns/carves? do they get stuck with the sled on its side (or upside down)..
there taking steps in the right direction though.
but i'm guessing they'll try to keep dropping a few lbs here n there each year till a new chassis is ready.. dropping 15 now..15 later...and so on.
i think yamaha will be one of the last ones to "really" care about (or cater to) the mtn riders.. they don't make their big money on snowmobiles, let alone the small percentage of mountain sleds they sell, so why would they care.
to a big company, all they are after is $, $ makes the world go round, right...
so why spend thousands and millions (or billions) of R&D $ that they'll never get back out, or make a profit on.
THIS is how i see it anyway, and this is why I believe a lot of the manufactures don't care and won't care about such a small and now dying market (mtn sleds)..
lower attack angle is nice, what'd they do? d/r? set back?
tapered tunnel is nice..why they couldn't figure that one out in 08...i dunno.
floats all around, is nice, one thing i've been wondering about and now they did it.
only a 15 lb wt loss...not quite enough...but its a start.
still a maverick...wth wouldnt they use a KNOWN good Challenger Extreme though...why is everyone trying to reinvent the wheel per-say?
did they fix the pos oil cans? thats more imporant than the handwarmers that can be fixed with ~30$.
did they fix the oil breather dumping oil all over?
rather see some of the serious issues fixed/resolved first..
i guess it goes back to, do these ppl even have mtn riders working in the division? lol do they get off the gd trails? do they do any pow turns/carves? do they get stuck with the sled on its side (or upside down)..
My guess on the attack angle is that they lengthed the front arm by about 1.5 - 2 " then moved the start of the rail curve back and adjusted the front mounting point of the torque arm, which is exactly what you get by putting a Cat skid in your Nytro. Funny thing is Cat figured that out in 03. Let the revolution continue.
Rx1M5
Rx1M5
r0tax said:
They do have a great test crew. I have met several of these guys.
Here is the analogy - When you approach your employer with an issue regarding something they are doing that you feel is asinine or counter productive, what happens?
The Japanese are very proud folks. They will listen to the riders they hire to a point, but then the pride... and the cash take the reins. I say give 'em a break. Have you EVER seen this many changes made on a sled that has already been in production for 2 years?
T-Nytro
Extreme
I think the changes they have made and the direction they went is really good. Track (162), suspension, floats all around, new tunnel, descent snow evacuation for floor boards, front end geometry, thats alot of stuff, 21lb weight reduction, not too bad either
Its the $16,200 PRICE THAT IS $3000 DOLLARS TOO HIGH.
Its the $16,200 PRICE THAT IS $3000 DOLLARS TOO HIGH.
Taylzee
Newbie
I ride a Yamaha cause it is built properly. Yes the MTX is still heavy but compared to a 800 poo or Polaris at the same price. It's hands down for Yamaha.
IMO, if you want a mountain sled that is gonna kick, then add TURBO! There isn't a 2 stroker out there that can touch it with the same reliability.
I am sure they could make it much lighter but look what has happened with the XP.
What would you pay for a 400lbs, 250HP nytro MTX? And then cry when you got 3 miles down the trail with a blown motor/belt/driveshaft/chaincase etc...? Which is what is happening with the 2 strokers at 150ish HP.
The other part of the equation would be...what would happen to all the aftermarket companies and gear heads if they built the perfect sled?
Right now in Canada you can buy a brand new 09 MTX for 11,400CDN(+tax). That's the same price as an 800 assault and less than an 800 XP and IMO twice the sled.
My point would be this: Yes there could be improvements, but if you want a boondocker that has reliability written all over it, then this is it. If you want to make it into something it was not designed for, (highmarking) then spend the money and support the aftermarket guys.
It wasn't too long ago that it would cost 40K to build a 2 stroker that would climb 1/2 way up. Now you buy an MTX and turbo it and you are up and over for 15K.
They are continuing to improve things at a slow pace, but it is not hurting anyone (unlike the competition)!
Rant over!
IMO, if you want a mountain sled that is gonna kick, then add TURBO! There isn't a 2 stroker out there that can touch it with the same reliability.
I am sure they could make it much lighter but look what has happened with the XP.
What would you pay for a 400lbs, 250HP nytro MTX? And then cry when you got 3 miles down the trail with a blown motor/belt/driveshaft/chaincase etc...? Which is what is happening with the 2 strokers at 150ish HP.
The other part of the equation would be...what would happen to all the aftermarket companies and gear heads if they built the perfect sled?
Right now in Canada you can buy a brand new 09 MTX for 11,400CDN(+tax). That's the same price as an 800 assault and less than an 800 XP and IMO twice the sled.
My point would be this: Yes there could be improvements, but if you want a boondocker that has reliability written all over it, then this is it. If you want to make it into something it was not designed for, (highmarking) then spend the money and support the aftermarket guys.
It wasn't too long ago that it would cost 40K to build a 2 stroker that would climb 1/2 way up. Now you buy an MTX and turbo it and you are up and over for 15K.
They are continuing to improve things at a slow pace, but it is not hurting anyone (unlike the competition)!
Rant over!
Muleskinner
Veteran
I just bought an 09 MTX with front floats for 12K Cdn. I can't believe what they are asking for the 2010's. If I want to lose 20 pounds I'll hit a treadmill and save the $$$$.
If you want to compare the reliability etc thats great but also look at Cat and Doo and even Polaris, none of them make radical changes to suspension geometry etc in the 3rd year of production, they get it right the first time. Sure their motors blow up etc etc but the basic geometry is right from day 1. If Yamaha wasn't so stubborn and always trying to jam a trail sled pretending to be a mountain sled down our throats year after year they wouldn't have to make these changes. There is absolutely NO reason they couldn't have made the 08 Nytro the same as the 2010 right from day 1. These "little" improvements year after year are BS. I'll never buy another Yamaha year 1 sled ever cause the first year they are all turds. They need to get their heads out of their a$$es and start really listnening to the riders or get out of the market. Even with these 2010 mods which I think are all good they could have gone way farther but No. Typical and dissappointing.
Rx1M5
Rx1M5
Rx1M5
Rx1M5
sledskiing
Expert
I know some of the mtn test riders for yammi and i know they are pushing for the right changes. At the end of the day it's up to corporate and it should be.
I've only been into sledding for 4-5 years and have always ridden a yammi. The changes for 2010 seem dead on to the way yammi approaches the business.
Every season people complain about the new release. We always want more for le$$. I'm just happy that this means i don't REALLY need to buy a new sled next season
Personally I like taking an AVG sled and modding it into a mtn monster.
I've only been into sledding for 4-5 years and have always ridden a yammi. The changes for 2010 seem dead on to the way yammi approaches the business.
Every season people complain about the new release. We always want more for le$$. I'm just happy that this means i don't REALLY need to buy a new sled next season
Personally I like taking an AVG sled and modding it into a mtn monster.
sledskiing said:Every season people complain about the new release. We always want more for le$$. I'm just happy that this means i don't REALLY need to buy a new sled next season
Personally I like taking an AVG sled and modding it into a mtn monster.
Spot on!!!
thrilled to not be wnating to buy new...
and LOVE having stealth sleds!! but hard for your sled to be considered stealth
