to ontario riders

[Sasquatch]

So join the minority or can't you read either
Oh yeah JUST MY OPINION!S

lmao, i can read just fine, if you think that the combination of val tags and permits and insurance will work than all the power to you, that will never come to pass in Ontario
i agree the OFSC is not perfect but no matter changes may occur they will not please everyone

Ah but that is where you may be wrong. Not a good idea to paint with such a large brush. So far the Government is very receptive to the collection of permit fees off the Val tag according to the last blurb I got from the OFSC

If enough of us continue to request the end of the permit sales completely and go to Val tag only fees the OFSC may listen. They already are heading in the right direction. They just need a little push to get them over the hump.

It is the "I think the permit is cheap" people that are the problem now. Need more of them to see the simple fact that a total Val Tag permit system frees up so many volunteers and less police on the trails needed to check tags. It creates a everyone pays everyone plays system instead of a everyone pays but only those who pay more plays system.

Myself I think its coming and I think it is those who continue to raise awareness (as in the squeaky wheel) that will bring it about.

Lets look at the past and you quickly see that all the selling features such as comparing it to skiing or golf etc, that the OFSC has come up with has not worked. Neither has more enforcement. Its time to change strategy! Everyone who registers a sled needs to be a member! IMHO

 

[thunderbolt]

So join the minority or can't you read either
Oh yeah JUST MY OPINION!S

lmao, i can read just fine, if you think that the combination of val tags and permits and insurance will work than all the power to you, that will never come to pass in Ontario
i agree the OFSC is not perfect but no matter changes may occur they will not please everyone

Ah but that is where you may be wrong. Not a good idea to paint with such a large brush. So far the Government is very receptive to the collection of permit fees off the Val tag according to the last blurb I got from the OFSC

If enough of us continue to request the end of the permit sales completely and go to Val tag only fees the OFSC may listen. They already are heading in the right direction. They just need a little push to get them over the hump.

It is the "I think the permit is cheap" people that are the problem now. Need more of them to see the simple fact that a total Val Tag permit system frees up so many volunteers and less police on the trails needed to check tags. It creates a everyone pays everyone plays system instead of a everyone pays but only those who pay more plays system.

Myself I think its coming and I think it is those who continue to raise awareness (as in the squeaky wheel) that will bring it about.

Lets look at the past and you quickly see that all the selling features such as comparing it to skiing or golf etc, that the OFSC has come up with has not worked. Neither has more enforcement. Its time to change strategy! Everyone who registers a sled needs to be a member! IMHO

A BIG AMEN !! Well put a Sasquatch

 

[Sasquatch]

In 97 I remember a permit more like 100 bucks. My math says 110 bucks it has risen.

Everyone seems to miss the point and jump to the permit price being cheap. I blame the OFSC for this as it has been brainwashed into us for so many years.

Forget the price for a minute focus on what a Val tag system with no permit can do for us. Forget about the insurance on the tag someone brought that up just confuses the whole idea. This is about the OFSC collecting the permit fees off the Val Tag via the MTO. There is no gov run insurance in Ontario. Works eleswhere does not here.

And finally everyone forget Gov run trails. We do a great job on the trails its the permit sales that are lacking.

 

[Sasquatch]

they are looking at the val tag also,but this would be in the mto's hand's,its easy for us to say this and that but if it were that easy,you would think it would of changed by now

It will never change unless asked for and last I heard from the OFSC it sounds like the government is willing.

 

[ScottyD]

they are looking at the val tag also,but this would be in the mto's hand's,its easy for us to say this and that but if it were that easy,you would think it would of changed by now

It will never change unless asked for and last I heard from the OFSC it sounds like the government is willing.

well if that is the case than that's great, i think the val tag/permit is a good thing, i agree forget about the insurance
Everyone has their own opinion on how to make things better, last winter being so bad has everyone all fired up

 

[Irv]

So join the minority or can't you read either
Oh yeah JUST MY OPINION!S

lmao, i can read just fine, if you think that the combination of val tags and permits and insurance will work than all the power to you, that will never come to pass in Ontario
i agree the OFSC is not perfect but no matter changes may occur they will not please everyone

Ah but that is where you may be wrong. Not a good idea to paint with such a large brush. So far the Government is very receptive to the collection of permit fees off the Val tag according to the last blurb I got from the OFSC

If enough of us continue to request the end of the permit sales completely and go to Val tag only fees the OFSC may listen. They already are heading in the right direction. They just need a little push to get them over the hump.

It is the "I think the permit is cheap" people that are the problem now. Need more of them to see the simple fact that a total Val Tag permit system frees up so many volunteers and less police on the trails needed to check tags. It creates a everyone pays everyone plays system instead of a everyone pays but only those who pay more plays system.

Myself I think its coming and I think it is those who continue to raise awareness (as in the squeaky wheel) that will bring it about.

Lets look at the past and you quickly see that all the selling features such as comparing it to skiing or golf etc, that the OFSC has come up with has not worked. Neither has more enforcement. Its time to change strategy! Everyone who registers a sled needs to be a member! IMHO

Have the OFSC link/letter, I'd like to see that myself?

I don't necessarily think we are the problem Sasquatch, we just think it is still a pretty good deal considering what we get for it.

If this does happen and it gets approved/passed, I sure hope it works but what will be put in place to ensure the actual money stays on the trails and with the clubs and not been taken and spent in other places like the Gov't loves to do?

 

[Dano]

Allot of great ideas and it seems the validation tags combined with permits is the most logical answer. As stated, you'll never please everyone, but as a whole, most snowmobilers gain, tourism gains, smaller clubs stay alive= win win!

Raising permit prices is proven to compensate for less permits sold. Not a direction to go into. Now districts are shutting down as many locals no longer buy permits. To keep the north alive for southeners to visit, northern clubs need to have locals support their home OFSC clubs in order to meet the criteria for minimum permits sold. This is a tuff thing to maintain and it now only takes a poor snow winter to fold up a club. When one club folds, it could fold all others close by since nobody wants to ride to a dead end with a loop closed. It's starting now with district 16 already folded.

In my current area, sledding is more commercialized with a healthy network of trails. But being originally from the north, I understand the situation as the OFSC is more catered to tourists and locals have countless miles of open back roads, lakes, pipe lines, hydro lines etc, which makes it unnecessary to be on actual OFSC trails.
There's always 2 ways to look at it. I think the time has reached where a change will need to happen.

Dan

 

[Irv]

Allot of great ideas and it seems the validation tags combined with permits is the most logical answer. As stated, you'll never please everyone, but as a whole, most snowmobilers gain, tourism gains, smaller clubs stay alive= win win!

Raising permit prices is proven to compensate for less permits sold. Not a direction to go into. Now districts are shutting down as many locals no longer buy permits. To keep the north alive for southeners to visit, northern clubs need to have locals support their home OFSC clubs in order to meet the criteria for minimum permits sold. This is a tuff thing to maintain and it now only takes a poor snow winter to fold up a club. When one club folds, it could fold all others close by since nobody wants to ride to a dead end with a loop closed. It's starting now with district 16 already folded.

In my current area, sledding is more commercialized with a healthy network of trails. But being originally from the north, I understand the situation as the OFSC is more catered to tourists and locals have countless miles of open back roads, lakes, pipe lines, hydro lines etc, which makes it unnecessary to be on actual OFSC trails.There's always 2 ways to look at it. I think the time has reached where a change will need to happen.

Dan

And how are they going to feel about spending $200+ bucks for a Val tag, especially since they get it for free now?

Just saying, but there is definitely going to be some growing pains with this for a few years if it comes to fruition?

 

[Dano]

Allot of great ideas and it seems the validation tags combined with permits is the most logical answer. As stated, you'll never please everyone, but as a whole, most snowmobilers gain, tourism gains, smaller clubs stay alive= win win!

Raising permit prices is proven to compensate for less permits sold. Not a direction to go into. Now districts are shutting down as many locals no longer buy permits. To keep the north alive for southeners to visit, northern clubs need to have locals support their home OFSC clubs in order to meet the criteria for minimum permits sold. This is a tuff thing to maintain and it now only takes a poor snow winter to fold up a club. When one club folds, it could fold all others close by since nobody wants to ride to a dead end with a loop closed. It's starting now with district 16 already folded.

In my current area, sledding is more commercialized with a healthy network of trails. But being originally from the north, I understand the situation as the OFSC is more catered to tourists and locals have countless miles of open back roads, lakes, pipe lines, hydro lines etc, which makes it unnecessary to be on actual OFSC trails.There's always 2 ways to look at it. I think the time has reached where a change will need to happen.

Dan

And how are they going to feel about spending $200+ bucks for a Val tag, especially since they get it for free now?

Just saying, but there is definitely going to be some growing pains with this for a few years if it comes to fruition?

Validation tags are not free starting from central Ontario southward. The thought process to incorporate permits with validation tags is that every sled registered in Ontario would contribute to the trail system thus not needing anywhere near $200 per sled to fill the Ontario OFSC money pot. Not going to please everyone for sure, but its less hurtful to pay $50 for a Val tag for everyone in comparison to the current. As a whole, it's also better for the economy as it would help keeping our sport alive where they are currently weak.
At this point we can't convince ourselves on the value of a permit being adequate as we are becoming the minority and the numbers support it. I myself would of paid $1000 for a permit to not go through what I did as club president for a year just to have it all done for me. I'm sure many other volunteers feel the same, but its reached a time where we need to change.

Dan

 

[Irv]

Allot of great ideas and it seems the validation tags combined with permits is the most logical answer. As stated, you'll never please everyone, but as a whole, most snowmobilers gain, tourism gains, smaller clubs stay alive= win win!

Raising permit prices is proven to compensate for less permits sold. Not a direction to go into. Now districts are shutting down as many locals no longer buy permits. To keep the north alive for southeners to visit, northern clubs need to have locals support their home OFSC clubs in order to meet the criteria for minimum permits sold. This is a tuff thing to maintain and it now only takes a poor snow winter to fold up a club. When one club folds, it could fold all others close by since nobody wants to ride to a dead end with a loop closed. It's starting now with district 16 already folded.

In my current area, sledding is more commercialized with a healthy network of trails. But being originally from the north, I understand the situation as the OFSC is more catered to tourists and locals have countless miles of open back roads, lakes, pipe lines, hydro lines etc, which makes it unnecessary to be on actual OFSC trails.There's always 2 ways to look at it. I think the time has reached where a change will need to happen.

Dan

And how are they going to feel about spending $200+ bucks for a Val tag, especially since they get it for free now?

Just saying, but there is definitely going to be some growing pains with this for a few years if it comes to fruition?

Validation tags are not free starting from central Ontario southward. The thought process to incorporate permits with validation tags is that every sled registered in Ontario would contribute to the trail system thus not needing anywhere near $200 per sled to fill the Ontario OFSC money pot.

Not going to please everyone for sure, but its less hurtful to pay $50 for a Val tag for everyone in comparison to the current. As a whole, it's also better for the economy as it would help keeping our sport alive where they are currently weak.
At this point we can't convince ourselves on the value of a permit being adequate as we are becoming the minority and the numbers support it. I myself would of paid $1000 for a permit to not go through what I did as club president for a year just to have it all done for me. I'm sure many other volunteers feel the same, but its reached a time where we need to change.
Dan

I hope your right Dano, but who will set the price, the MTO or the OFSC?

Definitely not going to please everyone, but I would assume the vast majority, including me, will buy in?

And X2 on the last bold

 

[Dano]

Allot of great ideas and it seems the validation tags combined with permits is the most logical answer. As stated, you'll never please everyone, but as a whole, most snowmobilers gain, tourism gains, smaller clubs stay alive= win win!

Raising permit prices is proven to compensate for less permits sold. Not a direction to go into. Now districts are shutting down as many locals no longer buy permits. To keep the north alive for southeners to visit, northern clubs need to have locals support their home OFSC clubs in order to meet the criteria for minimum permits sold. This is a tuff thing to maintain and it now only takes a poor snow winter to fold up a club. When one club folds, it could fold all others close by since nobody wants to ride to a dead end with a loop closed. It's starting now with district 16 already folded.

In my current area, sledding is more commercialized with a healthy network of trails. But being originally from the north, I understand the situation as the OFSC is more catered to tourists and locals have countless miles of open back roads, lakes, pipe lines, hydro lines etc, which makes it unnecessary to be on actual OFSC trails.There's always 2 ways to look at it. I think the time has reached where a change will need to happen.

Dan

And how are they going to feel about spending $200+ bucks for a Val tag, especially since they get it for free now?

Just saying, but there is definitely going to be some growing pains with this for a few years if it comes to fruition?

Validation tags are not free starting from central Ontario southward. The thought process to incorporate permits with validation tags is that every sled registered in Ontario would contribute to the trail system thus not needing anywhere near $200 per sled to fill the Ontario OFSC money pot.

Not going to please everyone for sure, but its less hurtful to pay $50 for a Val tag for everyone in comparison to the current. As a whole, it's also better for the economy as it would help keeping our sport alive where they are currently weak.
At this point we can't convince ourselves on the value of a permit being adequate as we are becoming the minority and the numbers support it. I myself would of paid $1000 for a permit to not go through what I did as club president for a year just to have it all done for me. I'm sure many other volunteers feel the same, but its reached a time where we need to change.
Dan

I hope your right Dano, but who will set the price, the MTO or the OFSC?

Definitely not going to please everyone, but I would assume the vast majority, including me, will buy in?

And X2 on the last bold

I really have no clue on a proposed validation price, but I'm guessing the beauty of it is that it's not a negotiation as to whom pays. You have X amount of sleds sold, which would equate to X amount of registered tags which equals to a confirmed and consistant dollar amount. Who knows, maybe a small permit fee for out of province or south of border friends that want to ride our trails. It's common math, allot of people paying into system equals to a small amount for each rider.
I know it's a big wish list, but power in numbers will do wonders. The loop hole I see is that we may not have an actual OFSC anymore in terms of an executive. So probably can quickly get brushed off or discouraged at an AGM meeting. Snowmobilers brought and built the OFSC due to the gov,t not supporting a system in the first place so how now? Probably not going to be easy.

Dan

 

[YammyRX1]

Saw this on OntarioConditions.com

Is anyone surprized?

http://blogs.canoe.ca/davidakin/politic ... ck-record/

 

[Sasquatch]

Have the OFSC link/letter, I'd like to see that myself?

I don't necessarily think we are the problem Sasquatch, we just think it is still a pretty good deal considering what we get for it.

If this does happen and it gets approved/passed, I sure hope it works but what will be put in place to ensure the actual money stays on the trails and with the clubs and not been taken and spent in other places like the Gov't loves to do?

People who think that the permit is cheap see no reason to change. They are not a problem for the OFSC and trail passes but pose a problem for those of us who want change as we need to convert them to a different way of thinking.

The OFSC will set the price and the MTO will get a collection fee was and is the idea. You can't pass money by the Government without money sticking to them. They do want an admin fee.

I'm at work now but I have it somewhere at home about the four step plan being looked at in a positive light.

 

[Sasquatch]

And how are they going to feel about spending $200+ bucks for a Val tag, especially since they get it for free now?

Just saying, but there is definitely going to be some growing pains with this for a few years if it comes to fruition?

It will be a lot less then 200 bucks. I think 80 was our goal. But I ask you how do you think they will feel under the proposed OFSC agenda paying even say 20 to 40 bucks and getting nothing for it. At least if they get to ride the trails for the Bucks tacked onto the Val Tag you have sold them a trail system. Not just downloaded our expensive system on to them (think money grab) and they still have to buy a pass to ride the trails.

 

[Sasquatch]

I know it's a big wish list, but power in numbers will do wonders. The loop hole I see is that we may not have an actual OFSC anymore in terms of an executive. So probably can quickly get brushed off or discouraged at an AGM meeting. Snowmobilers brought and built the OFSC due to the gov,t not supporting a system in the first place so how now? Probably not going to be easy.

Dan

Curious as to why there would be no more OFSC. Trails still need to be groomed, clubs supported. System still needs to be run. The only change would be the MTO collecting the money and then giving it to the OFSC minus a small admin fee instead of the clubs doing it and sending it in. The MTO is not going to take over the system they don't want to run it.