to ontario riders

[Sasquatch]

Saw this on OntarioConditions.com

Is anyone surprized?

http://blogs.canoe.ca/davidakin/politic ... ck-record/

Nope not one bit!

 

[YammyRX1]

So if they end up taking an admin fee from us we should just lobby harder on the grant side. They love playing the shell game giving out money with one hand and taking it with the other- that's how they keep jobs!

 

[Dano]

I know it's a big wish list, but power in numbers will do wonders. The loop hole I see is that we may not have an actual OFSC anymore in terms of an executive. So probably can quickly get brushed off or discouraged at an AGM meeting. Snowmobilers brought and built the OFSC due to the gov,t not supporting a system in the first place so how now? Probably not going to be easy.

Dan

Curious as to why there would be no more OFSC. Trails still need to be groomed, clubs supported. System still needs to be run. The only change would be the MTO collecting the money and then giving it to the OFSC minus a small admin fee instead of the clubs doing it and sending it in. The MTO is not going to take over the system they don't want to run it.

I guess it could be called whatever it is or will be. I just don't think we'll keep our current structure and executive. You need to keep in mind that taking it out of the OFSC's hands and putting it into the gov't hands, you now have gov't jobs. I don't think we can just keep the OFSC structure, executive and pay scale and have our cake and eat it too. Its Gov't money that needs to get converted to club money. Who knows how it will work, but I do think its the only option at this point.

Dan

 

[Irv]

Have the OFSC link/letter, I'd like to see that myself?

I don't necessarily think we are the problem Sasquatch, we just think it is still a pretty good deal considering what we get for it.

If this does happen and it gets approved/passed, I sure hope it works but what will be put in place to ensure the actual money stays on the trails and with the clubs and not been taken and spent in other places like the Gov't loves to do?

People who think that the permit is cheap see no reason to change. They are not a problem for the OFSC and trail passes but pose a problem for those of us who want change as we need to convert them to a different way of thinking.

The OFSC will set the price and the MTO will get a collection fee was and is the idea. You can't pass money by the Government without money sticking to them. They do want an admin fee.

I'm at work now but I have it somewhere at home about the four step plan being looked at in a positive light.

I knew they wouldn't do it for free, but who will control the money, how will it be dispersed, and will all of it stay on the trail where it belongs?

Does your letter mention anything about those concerns?

 

[Sasquatch]

Think about it! The MTO already collects money for the Val Tags. The system is aready in place. How its going to get rid of the OFSC exec and create a bunch of Government jobs is beyound me! Infrastructure already exists on both sides. All that is changing is the MTO collecting the money and writing a cheque to the OFSC.

On the OFSC's side the money comes in from the clubs or the MTO. The clubs are all volunteer so no change there. The upper crust still has to control and divide the money up so no change there. The Volunteer recrutment stays the same so all that leaves is creating permits and sending them out. Permits are contracted out so no loss to the OFSC. Might loose a couple jobs in the mail room maybe.

OK 165,000 (number of sleds registered in ontario) Val tags at 100 = 16,500,000 dollars. MTO keeps 5 dollars (fee that was mentioned) per Val tag = 825,000 dollars. OFSC recieves 15,675,000 dollars.

17,000,000 million was raised from trail permit sales in 2011 less in 2012. Less in 2013 is my guess on past performance of the trail pass sales. less cost of permits and shipping them, less cost of promotion of same said permits, less trail patrol and trail patrol training costs.

Now the OFSC is trying to do say 20 bucks for 3.3 million but the MTO is still going to take 825,000 off that so the OFSC gets 2.5 million trying to make up the shortfall in permit sales and gives nothing to the sledders it taking the money from. So an all out 100 bucks plus bucks per Val tag is a better bang for the buck and all sledders get something for their money.

In 2011 60% of registered sled had a trail pass. In 2012 that number dropped by a bunch. With a 10 dollar increase it will drop more this year.

100 dollar Val tag would work.

 

[ScottyD]

Think about it! The MTO already collects money for the Val Tags. The system is aready in place. How its going to get rid of the OFSC exec and create a bunch of Government jobs is beyound me! Infrastructure already exists on both sides. All that is changing is the MTO collecting the money and writing a cheque to the OFSC.

On the OFSC's side the money comes in from the clubs or the MTO. The clubs are all volunteer so no change there. The upper crust still has to control and divide the money up so no change there. The Volunteer recrutment stays the same so all that leaves is creating permits and sending them out. Permits are contracted out so no loss to the OFSC. Might loose a couple jobs in the mail room maybe.

OK 165,000 (number of sleds registered in ontario) Val tags at 100 = 16,500,000 dollars. MTO keeps 5 dollars (fee that was mentioned) per Val tag = 825,000 dollars. OFSC recieves 15,675,000 dollars.

17,000,000 million was raised from trail permit sales in 2011 less in 2012. Less in 2013 is my guess on past performance of the trail pass sales. less cost of permits and shipping them, less cost of promotion of same said permits, less trail patrol and trail patrol training costs.

Now the OFSC is trying to do say 20 bucks for 3.3 million but the MTO is still going to take 825,000 off that so the OFSC gets 2.5 million trying to make up the shortfall in permit sales and gives nothing to the sledders it taking the money from. So an all out 100 bucks plus bucks per Val tag is a better bang for the buck and all sledders get something for their money.

In 2011 60% of registered sled had a trail pass. In 2012 that number dropped by a bunch. With a 10 dollar increase it will drop more this year.

100 dollar Val tag would work.

1 agree with that, as of right now the trail pass being $210 and the cost of my val tag is $15, so a total of $235, so if the tag/permit was $100 than a savings of $135 is great
but, there will still be people that will still whine the $100 tag/permit is still to much

 

[thunderbolt]

Think about it! The MTO already collects money for the Val Tags. The system is aready in place. How its going to get rid of the OFSC exec and create a bunch of Government jobs is beyound me! Infrastructure already exists on both sides. All that is changing is the MTO collecting the money and writing a cheque to the OFSC.

On the OFSC's side the money comes in from the clubs or the MTO. The clubs are all volunteer so no change there. The upper crust still has to control and divide the money up so no change there. The Volunteer recrutment stays the same so all that leaves is creating permits and sending them out. Permits are contracted out so no loss to the OFSC. Might loose a couple jobs in the mail room maybe.

OK 165,000 (number of sleds registered in ontario) Val tags at 100 = 16,500,000 dollars. MTO keeps 5 dollars (fee that was mentioned) per Val tag = 825,000 dollars. OFSC recieves 15,675,000 dollars.

17,000,000 million was raised from trail permit sales in 2011 less in 2012. Less in 2013 is my guess on past performance of the trail pass sales. less cost of permits and shipping them, less cost of promotion of same said permits, less trail patrol and trail patrol training costs.

Now the OFSC is trying to do say 20 bucks for 3.3 million but the MTO is still going to take 825,000 off that so the OFSC gets 2.5 million trying to make up the shortfall in permit sales and gives nothing to the sledders it taking the money from. So an all out 100 bucks plus bucks per Val tag is a better bang for the buck and all sledders get something for their money.

In 2011 60% of registered sled had a trail pass. In 2012 that number dropped by a bunch. With a 10 dollar increase it will drop more this year.

100 dollar Val tag would work.

1 agree with that, as of right now the trail pass being $210 and the cost of my val tag is $15, so a total of $235, so if the tag/permit was $100 than a savings of $135 is great
but, there will still be people that will still whine the $100 tag/permit is still to much

probly but I'll bet there will be a lot less whinning , more compliant, and more revenue

 

[Dano]

There will always be whiners, but with validation tag, they will be paying whiners

Dan

 

[SledFreak]

Yep, Its the only option as far as I can see. Letting the MTO also has even more advantages as far as having us access to more public land for more trails. OFSC needs to hand over the keys and let the government run it.

 

[SledFreak]

So join the minority or can't you read either
Oh yeah JUST MY OPINION!S

lmao, i can read just fine, if you think that the combination of val tags and permits and insurance will work than all the power to you, that will never come to pass in Ontario
i agree the OFSC is not perfect but no matter changes may occur they will not please everyone

Ah but that is where you may be wrong. Not a good idea to paint with such a large brush. So far the Government is very receptive to the collection of permit fees off the Val tag according to the last blurb I got from the OFSC

If enough of us continue to request the end of the permit sales completely and go to Val tag only fees the OFSC may listen. They already are heading in the right direction. They just need a little push to get them over the hump.

It is the "I think the permit is cheap" people that are the problem now. Need more of them to see the simple fact that a total Val Tag permit system frees up so many volunteers and less police on the trails needed to check tags. It creates a everyone pays everyone plays system instead of a everyone pays but only those who pay more plays system.

Myself I think its coming and I think it is those who continue to raise awareness (as in the squeaky wheel) that will bring it about.

Lets look at the past and you quickly see that all the selling features such as comparing it to skiing or golf etc, that the OFSC has come up with has not worked. Neither has more enforcement. Its time to change strategy! Everyone who registers a sled needs to be a member! IMHO

Have the OFSC link/letter, I'd like to see that myself?

I don't necessarily think we are the problem Sasquatch, we just think it is still a pretty good deal considering what we get for it.

If this does happen and it gets approved/passed, I sure hope it works but what will be put in place to ensure the actual money stays on the trails and with the clubs and not been taken and spent in other places like the Gov't loves to do?

How do you feel you are getting a good deal when only a third of the trails are open? They are never 100 Percent open and alot of clubs have closed, so there are a loss of connections. People like you IRV are the ones that are not helping to fix the issues.

 

[yamahas]

Personally I think there is great value in the trail pass. I get a lot of use out of the permits $.

I do however know that I am not the majority of Ontario and I personally only buy one pass so I may see it differently as someone who might need to get passes for multiple sleds.

Just an idea but maybe if you have more then one sled in your name you should be able to get 10% off then 20, 30, and so forth on the permit for every extra sled? If the price of the permit is what is driving some riders away then it might help keep some riders on the trail system.

I know something needs to be done to keep the trails going in Ontario, clubs, even districts I think are closing if I am not mistaken.

I really like the idea of the val tags. It will not work for everyone that is for sure but it would benefit the sport in my opinion.

Let it snow!

 

[thunderbolt]

Why wouldn't it work for everybody ? All ride all pay

 

[pat the rat]

Why wouldn't it work for everybody ? All ride all pay

the fishermen that couldnt care less about groomed trails will be the one complaining

 

[thunderbolt]

Why wouldn't it work for everybody ? All ride all pay

the fishermen that couldnt care less about groomed trails will be the one complaining

So why should we care about the fisherman , let them pay the same as anyone else

 

[Irv]

Why wouldn't it work for everybody ? All ride all pay

the fishermen that couldnt care less about groomed trails will be the one complaining

So why should we care about the fisherman , let them pay the same as anyone else

And why should the fisherman care about us?
I am sure some these guys, trappers, hunters included have used portions of these trails for years, long before the OFSC ever came along, so imo, it is wrong forcing them to pay for something that benefits us. (JMO)