to ontario riders

[Sasquatch]

An important survey for Ontario riders to fill out.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/FrameworkforChange1

Maybe this will work?

Sasquatch, Thunderbolt, can you guys provide the link?
I assume after I did it I could no longer post the link?




Help Decide the Future of Ontario Snowmobiling -
Give Your Opinion Before December 15th

The Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs (OFSC) and its 217 community based clubs are currently exploring an exciting new proposal for Ontario snowmobiling and we want to know what you think. The proposal is called "A Framework for Change" and if everything included is acceptable and receives necessary approvals, our clubs could choose to implement it as soon as the 2013/14 season.

A key part of our evaluation includes input from current and former Ontario snowmobilers, so we invite you to complete this brief internet survey no later than December 15.

Once you enter the secure survey web site, you'll see the major concepts being considered in the proposal and have an opportunity to weigh in on how these new directions may, or may not, affect you and your future participation in Ontario snowmobiling.

Thanks for helping out!

I weighed in with my thoughts on a total Val Tag system. I hope many others do as well.

 

[thunderbolt]

An important survey for Ontario riders to fill out.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/FrameworkforChange1

Maybe this will work?

Sasquatch, Thunderbolt, can you guys provide the link?
I assume after I did it I could no longer post the link?




Help Decide the Future of Ontario Snowmobiling -
Give Your Opinion Before December 15th

The Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs (OFSC) and its 217 community based clubs are currently exploring an exciting new proposal for Ontario snowmobiling and we want to know what you think. The proposal is called "A Framework for Change" and if everything included is acceptable and receives necessary approvals, our clubs could choose to implement it as soon as the 2013/14 season.

A key part of our evaluation includes input from current and former Ontario snowmobilers, so we invite you to complete this brief internet survey no later than December 15.

Once you enter the secure survey web site, you'll see the major concepts being considered in the proposal and have an opportunity to weigh in on how these new directions may, or may not, affect you and your future participation in Ontario snowmobiling.

Thanks for helping out!

I weighed in with my thoughts on a total Val Tag system. I hope many others do as well.

Ok people this is your chance to have a say , Do you want things consolidated to hopefully increase compliance so the die hards aren't the only ones paying?Or perhaps you have an idea that is better , here is your chance to be herd . In any case if you feel that we need a more cost effective price for permits then do the survey and voice your opinion

 

[thunderbolt]

And yes I voiced my opinion for a total val.tag/permit system

 

[YammyRX1]

If it isn't already, there should be a new thread for this survey. There might be people that ride in Ontario that have stopped following this thread.

 

[Murse]

New thread is up

http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... highlight=

 

[thunderbolt]

WOW just read some of the feed back on conditions ontaio site , seems like a lot of miss trust towards the OFSC in the way they worded this survey seems there asking the questions as if they have it all figured out and not really asking for ideas or solutions .

 

[Sasquatch]

WOW just read some of the feed back on conditions ontaio site , seems like a lot of miss trust towards the OFSC in the way they worded this survey seems there asking the questions as if they have it all figured out and not really asking for ideas or solutions .

Thats what the blank boxes are for, But like most surveys they are set up for the most positive results.

 

[Irv]

A post written by someone who is very dedicated and involved in Snowmobiling in Ontario, and has been for many many years.

His thoughts.

"On HCS, a poster validly challenged me to add my opinions/ideas as to what we need to do so here it is for what it's worth:


Unfortunately there is no easy answer.

I wrote an extensive post last season why I feel that snowmobiling as we currently know it will be lucky to survive another 5 years.

This is because of weather change, lack of consistent snow in southern Ontario, high fuel prices, high sled prices, the weakening economy and the dwindling amount of disposable income of the middle class, people working harder than ever before with less free time, exorbitant motel rates for those who trailer and Clubs unable to keep up their trails as older Volunteers depart and aren't replaced and too many sledders that expect a groomed highway to run on and never volunteer to help those few remaining who do.

In addition, the MNR regulations and other environmental regs are costing snowmobilers huge dollars for replacement bridges. We just did two bridges in the last month with a $90,000 cost (previously hydro poles and hemlock decking).

Firstly, I don't think the additional $$$ being proposed from the mandatory Val Tags is going to materialize for political reasons.

Secondly, I think too many riders near the Regional boundaries will be negatively impacted versus a rider in the centre of a Region.

Thirdly, this new system is Regional and this requires Meetings and Officers who decide how the 'excess' money is diverted to Clubs in need. I don't think this will be easy or will even work.

The Provincial Government needs to do 3 things:

1. Provide greater funding, not just through Tourism Development Funding as now exists, but straight grants to OFSC by way of a rebate on the massive dollars collected by sales taxes on gasoline consumed by sledders.

2. Revise the liability law, similar to Quebec, whereby the insurance premiums the OFSC pays are drastically reduced.

3. The Province and OFSC should lobby the Feds very hard to get the same snowmobiling funding granted to Quebec which is huge$$.

4. Snowmobilers who want to sled are going to have to pay more in the meantime.

5. Make no mistake about it, Clubs will be closing this year, there will be gaps in the TOP trail system.

6. This sport has a year or two to get fixed or else the slope is a long way down with no easy way back up

 

[Daranello]

Q. Why does OFSC own $250.000 groomers. We live in Ontario and have lots of farm tractors doing noting in the winter... We could high farmers for allot less

As for the permits:
Guy in Timmins or muskoka could ride all day in one region. Or do the RAP tour. While the guy in sudbury need to buy 2 regions to ride.... Get real.
I'm on the line for two areas....why should I pay more cause of where I live the reginal area is BS...I won't buy a permit if this happens. Btw I've bought a min of 1 permit per year for the past 25 years

 

[Sasquatch]

A post written by someone who is very dedicated and involved in Snowmobiling in Ontario, and has been for many many years.

His thoughts.

"On HCS, a poster validly challenged me to add my opinions/ideas as to what we need to do so here it is for what it's worth:


Unfortunately there is no easy answer.

I wrote an extensive post last season why I feel that snowmobiling as we currently know it will be lucky to survive another 5 years.

This is because of weather change, lack of consistent snow in southern Ontario, high fuel prices, high sled prices, the weakening economy and the dwindling amount of disposable income of the middle class, people working harder than ever before with less free time, exorbitant motel rates for those who trailer and Clubs unable to keep up their trails as older Volunteers depart and aren't replaced and too many sledders that expect a groomed highway to run on and never volunteer to help those few remaining who do.

In addition, the MNR regulations and other environmental regs are costing snowmobilers huge dollars for replacement bridges. We just did two bridges in the last month with a $90,000 cost (previously hydro poles and hemlock decking).

Firstly, I don't think the additional $$$ being proposed from the mandatory Val Tags is going to materialize for political reasons.

Secondly, I think too many riders near the Regional boundaries will be negatively impacted versus a rider in the centre of a Region.

Thirdly, this new system is Regional and this requires Meetings and Officers who decide how the 'excess' money is diverted to Clubs in need. I don't think this will be easy or will even work.

The Provincial Government needs to do 3 things:

1. Provide greater funding, not just through Tourism Development Funding as now exists, but straight grants to OFSC by way of a rebate on the massive dollars collected by sales taxes on gasoline consumed by sledders.

2. Revise the liability law, similar to Quebec, whereby the insurance premiums the OFSC pays are drastically reduced.

3. The Province and OFSC should lobby the Feds very hard to get the same snowmobiling funding granted to Quebec which is huge$$.

4. Snowmobilers who want to sled are going to have to pay more in the meantime.

5. Make no mistake about it, Clubs will be closing this year, there will be gaps in the TOP trail system.

6. This sport has a year or two to get fixed or else the slope is a long way down with no easy way back up

I've read this Irv and while he makes some great points it is not the price of sleds because those not buying passes still have sleds that run and no wish to replace them just yet. They still ride them just avoide or in some cases then don't bother to avoide the OFSC trails.

These same people never or rarely stayed in a hotel. They rode from on town to another and back in the same day. Those are the people we are not buying.

He is totally right on the OFSC has only a very short time to get back on track as clubs close it will be very hard to get them to open again. He is also right about Volunteers, volunteer burnout is a know fact. Especially when volunteers bang their heads in frustration over ever increasing trail passes and watch people drop out because of it.

Ya I know its the economy! I can only say as I watched Passes rise in price I also watched people stop buying. Everyone still had their good paying jobs. We have dropped from 900 members at well under a hundred bucks a pass more then 10 years ago to less then 200 at 210 a pass. Every time the pass rises more drop out.

But I agree the OFSC needs to change and like Saskatchewan we need a Val Tag system. It saved them from folding and it can save Ontario. The whole well you will just have to live with higher passes is the problem and yep clubs are closing, there are gigantic holes in the TOP trail system and with two more districts (and a handful of clubs in different districts) in trouble more holes to follow.

 

[Sasquatch]

Q. Why does OFSC own $250.000 groomers. We live in Ontario and have lots of farm tractors doing noting in the winter... We could high farmers for allot less

As for the permits:
Guy in Timmins or muskoka could ride all day in one region. Or do the RAP tour. While the guy in sudbury need to buy 2 regions to ride.... Get real.
I'm on the line for two areas....why should I pay more cause of where I live the reginal area is BS...I won't buy a permit if this happens. Btw I've bought a min of 1 permit per year for the past 25 years

Two things here lets answer the first. You can not pull a drag with a farm tractor. The tractor need many mods to do this. Then after that only a few tractors will work. Not just any farm tractor can be converted. Next do you think Farmers are going to mod their tractors back and forth every year and risk damage during the winter which would incure huge summer losses for them. On top of that piling more hours on the tractor will wear it our quicker so the cost to rent will reflect that. Not cheap to farm out the job of grooming. We tried that in our district once.

Second you do not have to buy two regional passes. You have the choice of a regional pass or a full pass at the rate being applied now so it will not cost you any extra dollars then you now pay. As you have bought a pass for years there will be no change for you at all. If you wish to ride in more them one region you buy a full pass. If you wish to ride in one region only you buy a regional pass.

 

[ryan_p17]

I get that you can buy a full pass or a region pass, but for people who live in the middle of their region, they are unlikely to buy the full pass as most riding is probably done within a few hundred km's of home. it seems that the people who live on the edge of the regions are being penalized for their location and forced to buy a full pass to essentially ride the same square area as the people who live in the middle of the region. this is going to upset a lot of people who live on the borders of the designated regions. sudbury, north bay, new liskeard, parry sound, ottawa, pembroke all appear to be within about 100-150 kms of a region border. i'm sure that most of the riders in these areas will be upset at having to buy the full pass instead of a region pass due to their location. if the permit system wasn't already a touchy subject with a lot of riders, wait and see how it's going to be in the regional border towns/cities if this happens.

 

[pat the rat]

i am in the new liskeard area,to me,it appeals,cuz it goes to marten river,then all the way up to hearst,cochrane and all the best riding areas,we mostly ride north of nl,so it will be a saving for me having 2 sleds,if i decide to ride southbound,i will purchase a full pass,but true that the guys that live on borders will be forced to make a decision on where to buy

 

[Murse]

This is the only time I will ever say this, I heard back in the day Quebec land owners and I mean province wide told the Quebec provincial government that if they did not receive a tax break for letting riders use their land they will shut down everything. Since Government has taken over there are more jobs more people coming from all over the world to ride their world class trails. Everyone is happy, land owners get break on taxes, people are getting jobs ( groomers, patrol officers, etc etc ) Clubs are getting money from permits and I'm sure there is no shortage of permit sales and money coming from tourism with hotels, restaurants and sled rentals. Even gas stations I'm sure benefit highly in the winter season from this. Now this argument has been presented for years now I'm sure but why doesn't Ontario follow suit with this? We could all benefit, they could make a ton of money and create more jobs in this crappy economy. Ontario tourism would jump big time and snowmobiling would be a thriving sport in both provinces and I'm sure more people would ride both provinces. Ontario has so much to offer and we are shutting down trails because no one is doing anything about it, seems that way anyway. Any thoughts or additional information on this anyone?

 

[thunderbolt]

i am in the new liskeard area,to me,it appeals,cuz it goes to marten river,then all the way up to hearst,cochrane and all the best riding areas,we mostly ride north of nl,so it will be a saving for me having 2 sleds,if i decide to ride southbound,i will purchase a full pass,but true that the guys that live on borders will be forced to make a decision on where to buy

I'm sure the regional will work for some people , but not for all , thats what this should be about all for one and one for all so forget about you for a minute and think about what is good for all.
As I said a few times before all ride , all pay , all win