to ontario riders

[YammyRX1]

To continue this, I believe two things would have to happen. One, is there an example of this elsewhere in the province that we/the ofsc can learn from - has a 'federated' body of any kind had the province collect their funding for them via licensing or some other means. And two, do the members or permit holders of ofsc want it. A poll, survey may be in order here.

I agree with Sevey but let's take it one step further and look at all areas where the sport of snowmobiling thrives (not just Ontario) and see what the best practices are. We can cherry pick the things that work well and ignore the things that don't, why re-invent the wheel? I would like to see the OFSC have an exchange program with other organizations where they bring them here to ride and then go there to ride and share ideas.

 

[SledFreak]

To continue this, I believe two things would have to happen. One, is there an example of this elsewhere in the province that we/the ofsc can learn from - has a 'federated' body of any kind had the province collect their funding for them via licensing or some other means. And two, do the members or permit holders of ofsc want it. A poll, survey may be in order here.

I have given the idea of having a permit fee tacked onto 'paying for the annual license'. This is no small proposition. You are asking the province to collect and then pass the fee on to a non govermental body. Surely they are going to want a fee for this.

Also you cant compare this to the same as an automobile. Cars use roads, the goverment is responsible for roads. They probably arent even remotel interested in looking after trails. We also pay horrendous amounts of taxes on our gasoline that is supposed to be used on our transportation network. This in part is true but the gas tax has turned into a government slush fund to be directed where they see fit. Imagine if the goverment started abusing funds collected for the ofsc trail network. Who is going to oversea and govern this - the attorney general. To think they will conduct this in an open book fashion is dreaming.

In principle this is a good idea, but will take some very high level people to get the provinces ear and make it work.

Just a thougt
MS

Thats why I said to just let the government run it. As I say that, it's hard to imagine the government would let private operators handle new public funds. (Just look at the scandles with ORANG and others.) You need the right amount of oversight to ensure the proper funds are distributed to the clubs to operate. A proper business case would need to be created. It will be extremely tough to do, but IMO, OFSC has its back against the wall and are running out of options.

 

[thunderbolt]

Just my opinion , the OFSC doesn't trust the government and the government doesn't trust the OFSC otherwise bringing the permit, val. tag and even insurace together should be a no brainer , of course some cushy jobs maybe on the line since bringing everything together should free up some personal which would mean some savings on wages that could also be passed on to the cause

 

[Sasquatch]

Looks like the OFSC is looking at both the pass on the Val tags (Same as most provinces in Canada have already) and at the regional pass as two of the four options. The email I got says they are working to have it in for next year.

They also said they know that the pass sales are declining at an alarming rate and the system will not stay together unless they do something.

So next year will be the year to either turn around trail pass sales or watch the system crumble. IMHO!

 

[thunderbolt]

Looks like the OFSC is looking at both the pass on the Val tags (Same as most provinces in Canada have already) and at the regional pass as two of the four options. The email I got says they are working to have it in for next year.

They also said they know that the pass sales are declining at an alarming rate and the system will not stay together unless they do something.

So next year will be the year to either turn around trail pass sales or watch the system crumble. IMHO!

I attended the AGM and yes there were talks of change in the system , regional permits were disscussed at a possible price of 150.00 to 175.00 and a surcharge on your val tag of appox 40.00 , so as I mentioned in previous replies to this thread , riders who read and understand will clearly see the result as no real savings as a matter of fact if you want to ride out of your region it will be way more expensive .

 

[Sasquatch]

I attended the AGM and yes there were talks of change in the system , regional permits were disscussed at a possible price of 150.00 to 175.00 and a surcharge on your val tag of appox 40.00 , so as I mentioned in previous replies to this thread , riders who read and understand will clearly see the result as no real savings as a matter of fact if you want to ride out of your region it will be way more expensive .

Not understanding your thought process! Are you saying that the regional pass will also include a fee on the Val tags?

My understanding was one or the other not both but hey as the OFSC is a body that functions in a political way I can see a bone head move like that! If that is the plan then kiss the trail system goodbye people will not stand for it. Well no one around here will anyway. There are the ones who will pay 500 plus for a permit but even they will have a breaking point as the cost continues to rise as more continue to drop out.

I'll just ride manitoba where the passes are a little over a 100 bucks and the trail system is as every bit as good as the Ontario one and is only a 200 kms away. Plus I can ride all of Saskatchewan as well on the same pass. Talk about value enhanced!

 

[Sasquatch]

I reread the email I got and have now concluded the the OFSC is populated at the top with meat heads. Their plan indeed is to

a) Maintain a full pass permit with a sunbstantial increase after Dec 1rst
b) Establish 5 regional areas for a cheaper pass
c) Create a MSV surcharge for all sleds through the province
d) Establish permit enforcment powers for trail patrol members ie trail patrol can lay fines.

I hang my head in shame. I had for a moment thought that the OFSC got it! But now I see that they do not want to fix the system just come up with more ways to bleed it till it dies. Their heads are firmly planted in the sand and seem to think that more money can be gain by raising the fees. 900 members down to just barely over 200 in a few short years and they still don't get it.

Manitoba is looking better and I can stay off private land in Ontario and still get around. Good luck OFSC. Your going to need it!

 

[thunderbolt]

I reread the email I got and have now concluded the the OFSC is populated at the top with meat heads. Their plan indeed is to

a) Maintain a full pass permit with a sunbstantial increase after Dec 1rst
b) Establish 5 regional areas for a cheaper pass
c) Create a MSV surcharge for all sleds through the province
d) Establish permit enforcment powers for trail patrol members ie trail patrol can lay fines.

I hang my head in shame. I had for a moment thought that the OFSC got it! But now I see that they do not want to fix the system just come up with more ways to bleed it till it dies. Their heads are firmly planted in the sand and seem to think that more money can be gain by raising the fees. 900 members down to just barely over 200 in a few short years and they still don't get it.

Manitoba is looking better and I can stay off private land in Ontario and still get around. Good luck OFSC. Your going to need it!

Your e-mail is correct , but it's hasn't been voted on yet, so there is still time to slam it down , so pass the word and get something done before it's to late

 

[SledFreak]

What a joke! These guys just don't get it..

 

[miskwabibob]

I've been following this thread for a while now and I get the feeling that some of You view the OFSC in the same vein as the Government in that they take Your money and give You little in return.

I've been buying Trail Permits since 1985 and watched the price climb. I can't say I like paying over $200 Bucks for a permit but I think it is realistic when You look at the costs involved.

The system in the US is different because they apply gas taxes collected to the Trail System. I would love to see that here but IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN ANY TIME SOON !!!

Comparing prices Quebec is over $300 bucks this year with a similar but I would say better Trail System than Ontario.

I think when You consider the costs of riding a Trail Permit is good value for your money.

One last thought I refuse to ride with anyone that doesn't have a Trail Permit.

 

[Dano]

Comparing prices Quebec is over $300 bucks this year with a similar but I would say better Trail System than Ontario.

That includes sled insurance.

I have 5 sleds and in Quebec is cost $1500 to put on trail. In Ontario, the same cost over $2600. 2 sleds are going up for sale so only 3 are hitting the trail.

Dan

 

[darv]

The bottom line is that they have over price them selfs an people are not buying just look at the number my group of 20 plus riders we do not ride in ontario anymore we go to the us. The ofsc has always had there head in the sand. Are local club use to have 800 plus permit holder now 30 so figure it out would it be better to sell 800 @ 100.00 then 30 @ 200.00 then take Thunder Bay ontario they sold 3500-3700 permits now way below 100 do the numbers it is all about price an what people are willing to pay .....

 

[thunderbolt]

The bottom line is that they have over price them selfs an people are not buying just look at the number my group of 20 plus riders we do not ride in ontario anymore we go to the us. The ofsc has always had there head in the sand. Are local club use to have 800 plus permit holder now 30 so figure it out would it be better to sell 800 @ 100.00 then 30 @ 200.00 then take Thunder Bay ontario they sold 3500-3700 permits now way below 100 do the numbers it is all about price an what people are willing to pay .....

YYYYYYYYYYYYYUP justdo the math pretty simple

 

[YammyRX1]

The bottom line is that they have over price them selfs an people are not buying just look at the number my group of 20 plus riders we do not ride in ontario anymore we go to the us. The ofsc has always had there head in the sand. Are local club use to have 800 plus permit holder now 30 so figure it out would it be better to sell 800 @ 100.00 then 30 @ 200.00 then take Thunder Bay ontario they sold 3500-3700 permits now way below 100 do the numbers it is all about price an what people are willing to pay .....

So for those two regions (or clubs) the membership has declined over 95%? How many years did it take for that to happen and do you know if other areas are dealing with the same type of drop out rate? I don't even think the government could screw it up that bad...but I don't want to put the challenge out to them.

 

[thunderbolt]

this thread is a very good read , and clearly says what the majority of riders want , which is not the same as the OFSC . Has anybody read about this on any other snowmobile forum ? If you readers have seen other posts on other sites could you please share the sites with us here , I know I would like to read what the other riders are saying on other sites