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Two starters burnt in two days

Mooseman

I'm not all knowing. Post your question in forum.
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
3,942
Location
Greely, Ontario
Country
Canada
Snowmobile
'07 Venture MP (gone)
'07 Phazer FX (gone)
'09 Phazer GT (gone)
'10 RS Venture GT (My current ride)
'10 Nytro FX (son's)
LOCATION
Greely, ON Canada
Yesterday, was out on a ride, it just shut off and saw smoke. Opened it up and apart from the smoke, saw nothing. Trying to start it, nothing. I could hear the relay but nothing from the starter. So I figured I got hit with a stuck-on relay and my starter was fried. Pull started it with a strap and got it home.

I had a spare starter and relay at home and I also put an LED connected to the relay to let me know if the relay gets stuck again. All working. LED working correctly.

Today, again after riding, stopped for gas, went to start it and it was barely making a sound and the power dropped so much the gauge pod shut off. I could also faintly smell the same burnt smell from yesterday. Got it started again with the strap and headed home. Funny thing though is that the LED was flickering faintly a little. I found this very odd since the relay seems to be working correctly and the LED was off when I took off. After a while, it stopped flickering and stayed out.

When I got it home, tried to start it and it barely turned. Checked the battery and even boosted it, nothing. I then jumpered the relay terminals with a tool and turned over the engine very slowly and irregularly and also made my tool (a seal pick) glow red! The + wire from the battery became hot as well. I haven't taken it out yet.

Right now, I'm thinking it's the one-way starter clutch not disengaging and here's why. I've replaced the starter and relay as well as added the LED, which I have been checking every start up and it has been going out. The flickering LED after the second failure makes me think it's the starter spinning as if it was generating its own electricity.

Anybody have any ideas? Apart from the cost of the parts to replace that clutch, the work involved is not thrilling me at all.
 

I am hoping that @grizztracks does chime in since he seems to have a lot of knowledge in this area.
 
You need to pull the stator cover to inspect gears and one way clutch. If you broke a gear you could have metal in there causing a lock up. Did you take apart the old starter to see if the magnets dropped and locked it up? Starter failure are not always caused by a faulty relay. In fact I'm starting to believe most failures are not a direct result of a faulty relay and instead possibly a stuck one way clutch or poor magnet adhesion inside the starters.

If you pull the stator cover and the gears are good I'd replace the starter clutch, update the idler gear and inspect the clutch hub on the flywheel. If the hub is pitted then that'll need replaced also. The flickering led light might be the result of the starter motor remaining engaged after startup. A DC motor works two ways, if a voltage source is applied it rotates in a direction determined by the polarity of the voltage applied or if rotated it will act as a generator and output voltage. The flickering may be an indication that the starter is being rotated by the engine and back feeding the starter wire to the relay.
 
You need to pull the stator cover to inspect gears and one way clutch.

I was afraid you'd say that. I just pulled the second starter (took all of 10 minutes) and damage is similar to the first one. Pics posted.

This is the original starter, note the + terminal that broke off:

IMG_20180120_145100_resized-655344480.jpg IMG_20180120_145112_resized843985943.jpg IMG_20180120_151323_resized1899406638.jpg

And this was the second one, looked worse and a broken wire on the rotor.

IMG_20180120_151120_resized-223158846.jpg IMG_20180120_151125_resized516032410.jpg IMG_20180120_151143_resized-513261964.jpg

To me, they looked like they were electrically cooked rather than spun to death. Magnet in both were mint, as well as the bearings.

Now I'm thinking maybe the ignition switch was bad, maybe water in it or something wrong with it. I tested it out with an multi-meter and seems to be good. I couldn't see the LED while riding with my helmet so it could have activated and I didn't see it. Maybe I'll move it to the handlebar or somewhere higher so I can see it better.

Thanks @grizztracks
 


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