Ultimax vs G FORCE BELT

[sideshowBob]

FWIW- like many of you, I've experimented with most of current belts. My lowest belt temps (as measured by Razorback IR on sled) and lowest shift RPM with same clutching were always with Timken XS (300 HP tune).
Haven't tried Redline yet but will this winter.

I have the Razorback IR on my SW too and last season the Redline belt seemed to run around the same temps as my 8DN setup with high temps not being an issue.
As a sidenote the highest belt temps I see on my sled are when running in deep powder snow for long distances along the shoreline of lakes at high power levels and another higher temp situation is right after stopping after a long distance high speed railbed run. I do a bit of a cool down slow speed after both of those conditions to let things cool off a bit even though the temps are not in the danger zone. My sled is fully vented with moflow vents as well.

 

[DMCTurbo]

I've ran both - the redline surpassed my expectations last season. I was on the fence about trying it as the price seemed almost too good to be true, it's $100 here in Ontario and the XS825 has jumped up over $200. I ran it all last season on the 270 hurricane tune and never missed a beat. It still looks new and there was very minimal dust from it. Mind you our season was very short last year i think i put about 1200 miles on it but I have no concern about running one again this year. I bought as second for a spare even with having a brand new XS825 already in the bag. Much like the masses on here i jumped on the XS band wagon as soon as I tuned my sled, the first one they sent me I swore had a defect. It looked like the cord was sticking out the side too much but I sent them pics and they told me to run it, 100 miles later and the cord was already pulling out. They replaced it under warranty and I put 2000 miles on that next belt with the 240 tune with no issues. When I wicked it up to the 270 tune i put a brand new XS on and it worked well until I tried to do a wide open pull on a lake and it snapped about 3 seconds after I passed my buddy on his 850 polaris, scared the absolute s#it out of me, pushed in the stub shaft, you know how that story goes. I was very nervous about doing any sort of big end pulls with this redline belt at 270, but so far it hasn't let me down and for $100 it's worth changing yearly for peace of mind as Bob said

I just bought 2 from REVCO.CA for $234 CDN tax included with free shipping. 1 XS 825 costs more than that. Hopefully they work as well or better.

 

[Turboflash]

I have the Razorback IR on my SW too and last season the Redline belt seemed to run around the same temps as my 8DN setup with high temps not being an issue.
As a sidenote the highest belt temps I see on my sled are when running in deep powder snow for long distances along the shoreline of lakes at high power levels and another higher temp situation is right after stopping after a long distance high speed railbed run. I do a bit of a cool down slow speed after both of those conditions to let things cool off a bit even though the temps are not in the danger zone. My sled is fully vented with moflow vents as well.

Agree w you. Highest belt temps I've seen are high loads at lower MPH as you describe - deep snow, lots of throttle on. I think the sudden increase in temps on our gages when coming to stop is mostly due to sudden increase in heat right at sensor due to heat from exhaust which is close by. My sensor is at about 1 o'clock above secondary clutch. Exhaust header is really only about 4" away. When incoming air (from forward speed) suddenly stops, heat stays around sensor area longer due to not being blown rearward, thereby making temp reading quickly increase. Even with big power at high speeds and high traction my belt temps are usually around 170, maybe 175. In my opinion, very acceptable for 330 HP.

 

[Doc Harley]

A very good group of riders came forward, seemingly stand behind this belt. Mostly tuned with highest guy was at 300hp. absolutely no issues. The only thing I can't vouch for is their riding style or if they monitor things with precision.

 

[DennyTuna]

I have been running the redline belt for 2 seasons. I run mostly 240 but plenty on 270, after season 1 it showed so little wear I ran the same belt for it's 2nd season. It now has over 4,000 miles on it so I'm going to retire it but, it wore very little over those 4,000 plus miles that I wouldn't be afraid of throwing it back on. My winder was clutched using the 8JP and Thunder clutching and Apex primary, when I switched to the Redline it raised my RPM's about 200, had to add some weight to the middle on the fly weights. I'm so confident with this belt I made the switch this season on my Viper too. Others in my group are doing the same as well.

 

[sideshowBob]

Agree w you. Highest belt temps I've seen are high loads at lower MPH as you describe - deep snow, lots of throttle on. I think the sudden increase in temps on our gages when coming to stop is mostly due to sudden increase in heat right at sensor due to heat from exhaust which is close by. My sensor is at about 1 o'clock above secondary clutch. Exhaust header is really only about 4" away. When incoming air (from forward speed) suddenly stops, heat stays around sensor area longer due to not being blown rearward, thereby making temp reading quickly increase. Even with big power at high speeds and high traction my belt temps are usually around 170, maybe 175. In my opinion, very acceptable for 330 HP.

170 to 175 is right where my belt temps run as well unless I am riding with my wife...lol...then they are WAY lower.

 

[Doc Harley]

I've never blown a belt. I do stop and take temps on long pulls. 140 was the highest I've seen. I'm sure that is going to change this year, due to clutch changes.
But, I'll keep an eye on it.

 

[KnappAttack]

I agree belt temps should never, ever get that hot.

8DN is a hard , slipping POS belt LOL.

I’m intrigued though that someone has indicated the gates drops rpms even more than the timken.


I’ve had very good luck with the ultimax belts , even radar running never blew one or had one start to come apart.

Key I think to most belt issues is clutch alignment and clutching in general.

The 8DN is hard, but when clutched properly, hard belts are typically the quickest on the timers, and if geared properly, the fastest belts. The problem though is most of these guys just swap belts and don't adjust for the harder or longer belt. The 8DN obviously will run out of gear quicker because its longer. The Ultimate XS I must say has been my go too because of the price and warranty along with being easy to clutch too in varying conditions, but their cost has gone thru the roof! For me this is still just a trail sled and hard to beat the price of the harder and longer 8DN. One just have to adjust the clutching to pinch them harder and gear up more to keep things equal.

It's very hard to harness the power of the tuned 998 and balance the clutches in all different conditions we run them in on the trial. They are very fussy, but I've seen all the belts work well for different people depending on their clutch setups and what they lean too on balance front to back.

When I was racing I would run different belts for speed and different belts for ET. A speed belt wouldn't ET, but run big MPH, and visa versa. So depends on which is more important to you. 2G in the primary arms and a belt can make or break a sled on the timers along with helix angle. Hard to quantify on a trail sled though and most certainly cant feel the difference. On these forums its monkey see monkey doo, and trying ever trick of the week based on a posting. When speaking with Dale at Dalton he tells me it almost comical the helix's sold because someone read it here..... Same I'm sure with belts and other items.

Most of the name brand belts out there all all going to be good and just need adjusting for on our trail sleds, not saying that one brand is not going to be the better belt, but it must be asked what's it better at? Longevity, speed, ET, maybe belt dust? Mitsuboshi belting makes the the 8JP or 8DN that fit our machines, in the past I have found them to be really good belts. They also build the belts for Arctic Cat and Doo lately too. Not sure who makes the Polaris belts, but used to be Dayco years back. Everyone is looking for the trick part of the week.....

 

[sideshowBob]

There have been numerous old posts on the merits of the 8DN belts but facts do not lie and they proved their worth on the 300++++++hp boosted Apexs, running OEM Yamaha clutches, that is well documented and that is why I ran an 8DN from zero miles on my SW because of my previous experience with them on two strokes Yamahas and boosted Apexs.
When I was still doing snow drags and running an 8DN I found my 8DN setup to be quicker in 660' but I also am finding the Gates Redline to mph higher with the same setup. In saying this I must say I am no where near as fussy on my current setup as I was when I was still setting up for snow drags as my primary objective. Reliability and trail drivability are my primary objective nowadays.
LOL..You know when you are getting old when...

 

[Doc Harley]

Using Amazon:
Ultimax $169.00us
Redline $64.00us*
* Correction $87. eBay. Amazon switched me to another part #
Best prices I've found.
I honestly don't understand how they can do it. But trust the riders/members and their claims.

 

[Fleecer]

Fleecer tried the Redline and blew it to pieces, where the others didn't come apart, maybe he'll chime in as I know he runs them at very high speeds on those big trails. I thought he didn't like it. As for 300 degrees on the belt, I don't think any belt could survive that, and if temps are that high, somethings off in the clutching and slip or pinch is really bad.

I haven't tried my Redline yet as the Ultimate XS is doing so well on my TAPP primary. I may even go back to the 8DN and try now on the TAPP primary too, but I have 3 brand new Ultimax here as they have been so good since going to the RX-1 Primary and the TAPP primary, both of those clutches have been perfectly easy on belts, rollers and the driveline.

With my setup, the redline was stickier than an ultimax and pulled 100 rpm less. I found the tensile strength to be weaker than the ultimax or gboost. However, I would take it over a 8jp any day.

I think on stock/lower power levels it is a good option and has a great price point.

 

[Doowithblue]

With my setup, the redline was sticker than an ultimax and pulled 100 rpm less. I found the tensile strength to be weaker than the ultimax or gboost. However, I would take it over a 8jp any day.

I think on stock/lower power levels it is a good option and has a great price point.

This is a spot on review thanks fleecer!

 

[Fast]

Moving on to another belt can be quite difficult. I mean the one you're using is flawless. Why change?
Price is right, at $85 bones. Bob's experience says a lot. He's trail riding with the G Force. Goes to the drags with it (thou I'm pretty sure his clutches are completely dialed in.) And a little more mph sure doesn't hurt.
Yes the G Boost is another option, at $225pr....I'm not ready to make that commitment. Maybe if I was in the 300hp+ club.

Definitely something to look at when you're looking for every advantage you can get.
Even a consistent 1 mph helps.

Gates is $105 canadian here or $82 canadian tax in shipped for the 8jp the ultimax is way overpriced imop

 

[twyztid]

I have been running the XS825 on my 275hp tuned Sidewinder. Last season I got a Gates Redline belt to try just because it was cheap ($65 USD). I only used it for 1 day as a test but it seemed to perform similar to the XS825. I currently have 2 new Timken XS825 belts, a new Gates Redline 40R4313 belt (another 1 for $65), and that Gates Redline that I used for just 1 day. At some point I will try out the Redline belt longer. It may become my "go-to" belt if they continue to stay under $100.

 

[Doc Harley]

I have been running the XS825 on my 275hp tuned Sidewinder. Last season I got a Gates Redline belt to try just because it was cheap ($65 USD). I only used it for 1 day as a test but it seemed to perform similar to the XS825. I currently have 2 new Timken XS825 belts, a new Gates Redline 40R4313 belt (another 1 for $65), and that Gates Redline that I used for just 1 day. At some point I will try out the Redline belt longer. It may become my "go-to" belt if they continue to stay under $100.

Absolutely worse case scenario, use redline for daily and Ultimax for lake use.
But to be honest, I'd give that redline a nice hard pull...lol.