why arctic cat fuel inj.?

[Sno Cat]

Another explanation for using AC EFI (if it does) is to save money. This entire sled is absolutely the least inexpensive way for Yamaha to sell something"new". This sled required no innovation/development, it only required collaboration w/AC. Again, this points to Yamaha being a snowmobile engine supplier, not a snowmobile innovator/designer/developer/manufacturer.

 

[yamajammer76]

I hope they get a better welder. That looks like junk even if it is just a proto type.

I agree that weld is an embarrassing piece of crap.My buddies 1000 crossfire has mig wire stuck in the welds from factory.

Yep that is exactly the type of stuff I see coming from Cat's factory. I sure the heck hope they have Yamaha people inspecting the Vipers as they roll off the line.

 

[dudester4]

what you mean no inovation, yamaha has been with ac since 09 workin on this deal.yamaha had a hand in the procross chassie.

 

[Mighty]

Cats electronics........

 

[F7 Racer]

what you mean no inovation, yamaha has been with ac since 09 workin on this deal.yamaha had a hand in the procross chassie.

Please share your proof source for that.......

 

[Mighty]

what you mean no inovation, yamaha has been with ac since 09 workin on this deal.yamaha had a hand in the procross chassie.

Please share your proof source for that.......

He's somewhat accurate. It has been the last two years.

 

[KevinS]

You guys gotta remember, this sled is ALL AC made. the only thing in it yamaha is the motor and clutches.

Look at the wire loom,crappy zipties,bolts,nuts,fuse box....everything is exact same as my cat. Even the crappy cat skis!

I agree with Dano about the ECU. Cats setup can be written too and this is why the cat turbo is the best bang for buck to get to 260hp on the cheap,even with all their issues!

Dave at Hurricane is ontop of this already and will be building turbo kits.

I fully expect to see a 2015 Cat turbo utilizing the yammie triple(hopefully yammie too!) to replace the ZUK 1100 turbo like mine.

Dan

I believe that Cat owns the tooling for the 1100 4 stroke so they will probably be building them in house instead of by Suzuki.

 

[cannondale27]

Does the current Suzuki engine have a O2 sensor on it?Have seen it in pics of Viper.
If it does it is closed loop system.

What AFR does this closed loop system attempt to attain?

Reason I ask is that although 14.7 : 1 may be ideal for Pollution in almost every motor I have seen dynoed it does NOT produce the most power.

 

[Mtnviper]

Does the current Suzuki engine have a O2 sensor on it?Have seen it in pics of Viper.
If it does it is closed loop system.

What AFR does this closed loop system attempt to attain?

Reason I ask is that although 14.7 : 1 may be ideal for Pollution in almost every motor I have seen dynoed it does NOT produce the most power.

Yes it does have an O2 sensor.

If they are programmed like some cars/trucks, then it usually is in closed loop during idle and cruise. At wide open throttle the ECU switches to a pre-programmed fuel mapping.

Normally maximum horsepower is around 12.0-12.5 to 1 AFR depending on engine design. Some newer engines can achieve max power with a leaner mixture, due to cylinder head design.

Bill

 

[AKrider]

I hope they get a better welder. That looks like junk even if it is just a proto type.

I agree that weld is an embarrassing piece of crap.My buddies 1000 crossfire has mig wire stuck in the welds from factory.

My Polaris IQR had the same thing. Didn't effect the ride and handling. My Nytro was beautifully constructed. Too bad it couldn't go around a corner or in a straight line as good as a 20 year old Indy. It will be interesting to see how well the SR Vipers sell. I believe ride, handling and overall performance will trump fit and finish concerns. Nice thing is, Yamaha gave the brand loyal guys a choice. All their old sleds are still available.

 

[getchuk]

what you mean no inovation, yamaha has been with ac since 09 workin on this deal.yamaha had a hand in the procross chassie.

I've heard that to from people that seems to know a thing or two(knew about yamaha motor in ac), but kind of strange that its so quiet from yam if that was the case, anyways thanks for all the good info about fuelinj and electronics, this site rocks

 

[MT.man]

At the sno-deo in northern N.H. the Yamaha rep. was quite adimit when he was asked about the efi on the new Viper saying " We are using the same vender as cat but are doing our own r&d and mapping. Bye the way I really liked the 137 and can see one in my trailer shortly.

 

[cannondale27]

Does the current Suzuki engine have a O2 sensor on it?Have seen it in pics of Viper.
If it does it is closed loop system.

What AFR does this closed loop system attempt to attain?

Reason I ask is that although 14.7 : 1 may be ideal for Pollution in almost every motor I have seen dynoed it does NOT produce the most power.

Yes it does have an O2 sensor.

If they are programmed like some cars/trucks, then it usually is in closed loop during idle and cruise. At wide open throttle the ECU switches to a pre-programmed fuel mapping.

Normally maximum horsepower is around 12.0-12.5 to 1 AFR depending on engine design. Some newer engines can achieve max power with a leaner mixture, due to cylinder head design.

Bill

Thanks.Thats a relief.

Why is it that almost every automobile has gone to a closed loop system with a Mass Airflow System?Why is this Mass Airflow sensor missing from most Cycles and Sleds?What are its benefits.

 

[Jamie Gelting]

http://www.kokusandenki.co.jp/english/index.html

I believe this is who Cat uses. I would also think Yamaha is going to make sure that it is running up to there standards before release. I am a Yamaha fan boy through and through but they certainly are not and have not been perfect ( I also have owned cats). I imagine that with both companies having input on this and Cat having worked with this fuel injection company for a long time it should be a good release. For those who want to think the worst time and time again no matter what is said that is what they will see/think "the worst", no one an change there mind. All we can do hope for the best !

Jamie

 

[Mtnviper]

Thanks.Thats a relief.

Why is it that almost every automobile has gone to a closed loop system with a Mass Airflow System?Why is this Mass Airflow sensor missing from most Cycles and Sleds?What are its benefits.

A MAF system is becoming the standard in automotive mainly because they have to meet stricter emisions standards (at this time) as well as fuel mileage requirements. With the biggest challenge being that a car/truck has to meet these standards over the useful expected life of the vehicle.
As an engine wears, it's fuel requirements change. This is where a MAF system shines, as it doesn't require ECM fuel maping (VE table) reprogramming as the vehicle ages.

A C/P from pcmforless that explains it pretty well.

Speed Density SD vs. Mass Air Flow MAF
Often we deal with the question, "Which is better speed density (SD) or mass air flow (MAF)". As with most things in life there are advantages and disadvantages for both. Its better to understand each strategy so as to make the most informed decision.

Mass Air Flow
Mass air flow sensor equipped cars fuel either directly from or by a blended model of both mass air flow and speed density calculations. The MAF sensor is located somewhere in the intake stream typically away from sharp bends and typically at least 8-10 inches away from the throttle body however these rules are not always followed. There are several different types of MAF sensors but for most GM applications it is a frequency biased "cold-wire" sensor that generates a signal between 0 and 15k Hz. MAF sensors read not just airspeed but the relative mass of the air which eliminates pressure and temperature as variables. They are usually positioned to sample from the middle of the intake tubing which should give the best average reading.

Since the MAF sensor samples from a specific spot in the inlet tubing changing the airflow in or around the sensor requires recalibration of the MAF sensor. Changing the airflow around a MAF sensor can be caused by a change in size of the intake plumbing, bends before or after the MAF sensor, and changes to the MAF housing.

Several applications that use MAF biased strategies also use Speed Density as a backup or for a blended fuel calculation. They also use Speed Density as a sanity check for MAF readings.

Advantages
Typically more forgiving and easier to tune
If the MAF sensor has been calibrated typically fueling remains consistent as modifications change. It can be said that the MAF equipped cars are a little more forgiving to new modifications
***Since the MAF sensor measures air mass directly it can be said that a MAF equipped car might stay in calibration as the engine wears or in extreme environment changes (however this is not normally a concern for well tuned speed density applications).***


Disadvantages
Sensitive to changes to the intake plumbing
Can be fouled by becoming dirty. Once fouled MAF calibration is skewed
Sensitive to cam reversion on large cammed cars. The MAF sensor isn't directional so air pulsing back and forth can affect repeatability and reliability.Limits on performance. Most systems can not read at higher horsepower levels.






Speed Density


Speed density systems calculate the density of the air first by measuring the temperature of the inlet air and manifold pressure. With the density of air known the engine controller then looks up how much air it expects to be moving at a specific engine speed and manifold pressure. This is done in the Volumetric Efficiency table or VE table. Traditionally the VE table is 3D and has two axes Engine Speed (RPM) and Manifold Pressure or % Load. A engine that is 100% efficient moves exactly its displacement every two rotations in 4-cycle engines.



Advantages
Less restriction in the intake tract
More freedom in the intake tract
Able to measure air consumption on very high horsepower builds where a MAF sensor might be limited.
Able to read boost if equipped with a greater than 1 Bar map sensor
Free from errors encountered in MAF fouling.
Works better with large cams where reversion affects reliability.


Disadvantages
Is a little more difficult to tune
Relies on a well tuned Volumetric Efficiency Table
Less forgiving to new modifications to the engine
Might have errors in large weather changes however a proper tune makes this minimal if any error.


Bill