Will the Sidewinder ever have competition?

[number1kyster]

This is funny but I'm liking the look of my Ducks.

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Sharp sleds XP. I'm looking forward to your reviews this winter.

 

[XP123]

Yamaha needs a gear reduction Turbo motor.

I think the Yamaha 998 turbo is a jewel and what it needs is a proper clutch and tuning.

What Yamaha really needs is to show Cat how to build a sled like it should be built. Way too many things that need to be addressed on these sleds because Cat has made a mess of so many things in the past and Yamaha is still in the process of rectifying. If Yamaha doesn't get more involved with the design of these Yamacats then they are doomed. The only thing that makes these sleds worth owning is this site and they guys who work their butts off on these sleds and share their knowledge with us.

All that being said my experience with my Winder has been very positive and I have no regerts buying it. I sold it to my nephew and I know he will have very good luck with it because I have done things to it that needed to be done and I will still be keeping track of it and visiting this site for all the great info to keep these sleds running.

 

[Crossfire12]

Yamaha is not going to build complete sleds. No matter what model people always have a problem with the way it’s built and they will always change things, believing there way is the way. I have a stock 17 Zr9000 run stock, stock clutching everything, no broken belts, no clutch problems etc, studs only, just run it. Then. Have one with a tune and exhaust, weights in clutch, if run normal ,no throttle jacking thru the woods on-off throttle, I have no clutch problems except hotter. So I just ride the stock one I believe cat did ok just not the way some people on here who believe their engineers,( especially the clutching ) Look at the apex and all the things people done to it, garage engineering it, Yamaha didn’t do quite well building a sled around a motor, suspension steering sucked, so I guess AC stepped in and showed them how it’s done, I know your all mad now but the sidewinder/cat which you all mostly love is because of AC not YAMAHA, the motors are great.just saying and not bashing

 

[XP123]

Yamaha is not going to build complete sleds. No matter what model people always have a problem with the way it’s built and they will always change things, believing there way is the way. I have a stock 17 Zr9000 run stock, stock clutching everything, no broken belts, no clutch problems etc, studs only, just run it. Then. Have one with a tune and exhaust, weights in clutch, if run normal ,no throttle jacking thru the woods on-off throttle, I have no clutch problems except hotter. So I just ride the stock one I believe cat did ok just not the way some people on here who believe their engineers,( especially the clutching ) Look at the apex and all the things people done to it, garage engineering it, Yamaha didn’t do quite well building a sled around a motor, suspension steering sucked, so I guess AC stepped in and showed them how it’s done, I know your all mad now but the sidewinder/cat which you all mostly love is because of AC not YAMAHA, the motors are great.just saying and not bashing

I never said Cat can't build a great chassis. Cats have always built great performing sleds and they ride and handle as good or better than anything else. That doesn't change the fact that they are lacking in quality and some of their designs are out to lunch.

Things like the oil tank that needs a gasket rather than sealant. Also the tri hub mess along with all the bearing made in China. I can go on and on but all you need to do is read Rockerdans build thread. Cat needs to hire Dan and then he can show them where the issues are.

 

[Mototown]

Did you get a chance to throw a leg over that indy?

Yes I rode the Indy 850 , it has alittle more upright body position, it vibrates ( compared to my sled) , sidewinder was better through small bumps, & power was docile compared to sidewinder set at 240. I must say the trails at Halliburton are mostly tight 20-50 mph short bursts...
Having a Apex sense 08 , now a sidewinder , I don't think I would ever go back to a 2 stroke even if Yamaha made there own 850 . The power band is to short ( peaky power) & the 2 stroke vibration I don't miss .

 

[SumpBuster]

This is funny but I'm liking the look of my Ducks.

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As it should be! I hated the old phazer 2 stroke cockroach look..but others loved them!

 

[cannondale27]

Until they slow clutch speeds down or come out with a miracle belt SOME will always have trouble with belts. Guaranteed

 

[1nc 2000]

We have a 900t in the stable too. Time will tell. It might get tuned after the first year.

 

[Beerman]

DAMNIT! How did I miss a thread where pretty much all the talk is 'bout max horespressures!!!

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I like the 7500rpm peak. Should be very easy on belts and easy to clutch.

I have to disagree with some of the previous sentiments regarding this 900T motor & tune.
I don't think the ACE will compete against the 'Winder in a HP war, but does it even need to?
Mototown even says the 270 tune is a "handful" in the trails.
195 HP in a lighter chassis running 1500 rpm's lower is going to be a fun sled.
How many times can you actually USE 200 HP plus.
YES i'm at 240ish myself now, but i was happy at 200 or even 150 on my APE.

This thread is about "competition" with the Sidewinder so horsepower wise the answer is NO.
BUT, and a HUGE but, 195 HP in one of the best chassis ever, with the BEST accessories ever, throw in no stupid TORX bolts & gasket-less oil tanks & possibly a clutch that works & a suspension that doesn't break & dipsticks in the chain case & skis that turn........etc.....etc.....

YES, the 'Winder as a WHOLE sled has some competition NOW!

Bud tells me his 900t clutches run super cool. Many of us who ran 1200xs 4tecs loved that engine, but in those very tight wrapped plastics, the clutches/belt ran ultra hot all the time. Many of us ran pb80 clutches and wound them up to 8800rpms with compression secondary setups, which ran even hotter belts. But at 145-150HP tuned, it still never blew a belt even though i could not even touch it on trail rides.lol

FF to the new G4 "wide body" 4s models for '19. Doo having many belt issues in 17/18 on their flagship 850 2s, decided to add LARGE cooling fins to their secondary AND PRIMARY(backside). In addition to more venting and motor mount corrections. BRP took much of these additions over to the new wide body 900t. So now with a wider body for more air movement,smaller engine block, and massive cooling fins, the new 900t with more HP stock then the 1200, is running ULTRA cool clutches. I like when a manufacturer fixes an issue. Will the Pdrive and 200hp tunes have good belt life for them? I would guess YES.

I love my 998 with a passion, but I've come a long way from my years of brand loyalty. Nothing will run with the king 998 and the doo was not meant to. But for a ton of guys, beating up on their 850 buddies will be all they need or care about, all while getting 17+MPG. I will never knock another 4s turbo, I feel much more kinship to the little brother 900t then I do to any 2s sleds out there. And to see Hurricane Dave along with GAP bringing all the good tech to them as they have done with us is just fun to sit back and watch, Heck you can even move over to BRP now and keep your tuner! Reminds me of 2 seasons ago when the 998 tunes were coming out almost daily. Turbo 4s are finally becoming the norm, and easily the king of big power AND RELIABILITY all in one...Its easy to see the writing on the wall for 2s guys. Hard to spend these huge dollars on throw away 2s engines that are hard to sell with 0ver 4500 miles on ODO, lol.



Dan

 

[XP123]

I only have a few miles on my 900T but these things really stand out. It's super quiet, It feels and handles lighter than any 4 stroke sled I have ever owned and it has instant throttle response lifting the skis at will. I think it will be a corner to corner monster.

 

[74Nitro]

Bud tells me his 900t clutches run super cool. Many of us who ran 1200xs 4tecs loved that engine, but in those very tight wrapped plastics, the clutches/belt ran ultra hot all the time. Many of us ran pb80 clutches and wound them up to 8800rpms with compression secondary setups, which ran even hotter belts. But at 145-150HP tuned, it still never blew a belt even though i could not even touch it on trail rides.lol

FF to the new G4 "wide body" 4s models for '19. Doo having many belt issues in 17/18 on their flagship 850 2s, decided to add LARGE cooling fins to their secondary AND PRIMARY(backside). In addition to more venting and motor mount corrections. BRP took much of these additions over to the new wide body 900t. So now with a wider body for more air movement,smaller engine block, and massive cooling fins, the new 900t with more HP stock then the 1200, is running ULTRA cool clutches. I like when a manufacturer fixes an issue. Will the Pdrive and 200hp tunes have good belt life for them? I would guess YES.

I love my 998 with a passion, but I've come a long way from my years of brand loyalty. Nothing will run with the king 998 and the doo was not meant to. But for a ton of guys, beating up on their 850 buddies will be all they need or care about, all while getting 17+MPG. I will never knock another 4s turbo, I feel much more kinship to the little brother 900t then I do to any 2s sleds out there. And to see Hurricane Dave along with GAP bringing all the good tech to them as they have done with us is just fun to sit back and watch, Heck you can even move over to BRP now and keep your tuner! Reminds me of 2 seasons ago when the 998 tunes were coming out almost daily. Turbo 4s are finally becoming the norm, and easily the king of big power AND RELIABILITY all in one...Its easy to see the writing on the wall for 2s guys. Hard to spend these huge dollars on throw away 2s engines that are hard to sell with 0ver 4500 miles on ODO, lol.



Dan

Your last few sentences starting at 'Turbo' are spot-on. I couldn't agree more. In fact, I was at a former Polaris dealer yesterday(that still fixes sleds), and there was a 2015 800 engine on the bench with holes in the crankcase. How disappointing.

 

[Mototown]

That thing is runnnung 16.5 psi of boost at 195 HP.

Put that same amount of boost into the winder and you add 80 HP onto that 195 number.

998 is a real bad #*$&@ motor for sure!

The reason the skidoo needs 16.5 to make 195hp is the head or cam timing is garbage compared to a Yamaha motor ....

 

[Mototown]

That is the reason skidoo isn't making a 1000cc turbo , because they can't compete against Yamaha making 4 strokes....

 

[krm]

That is the reason skidoo isn't making a 1000cc turbo , because they can't compete against Yamaha making 4 strokes....

Brp does have a STK.300 hp Sea Doo motor when flashed makes 340 hp .That should compete .