Will the Sidewinder ever have competition?

[Mototown]

Brp does have a STK.300 hp Sea Doo motor when flashed makes 340 hp .That should compete .

The motor is 1630 cc ... what would Yamaha make if it had 1500cc ... lol
That like comparing the 135 hp 1200 e-tec (1170cc) to a 150hp Apex 1000cc , with Yamaha using old 2004 tech from the R1 ... skidoo needs a cc advantage to be in the ball park .

 

[sledding rocks]

The reason the skidoo needs 16.5 to make 195hp is the head or cam timing is garbage compared to a Yamaha motor ....

your right , plus what about the 3 piece crank design there using in this motor ? from what I'm being told by the engine tuners this engine is not designed to handle big power . apparently its not using the same crank as there maverick ,

 

[XP123]

I think the 900T will be a great corner to corner trail sled. It will be very reliable get great fuel mileage and go over 5000 miles on the same belt. There is no way it will compete on the lakes with the Sidewinder. I have no idea why so many feel that because it's a turbo it is a hyper sled.

The Sidewinder will always be the big dog and I don't think you will ever see anything that can compete when it comes to HP or raw speed.

The big question is will Yamaha still be in the game next year or will Cat be the only option if you want the 998 Turbo?

 

[SumpBuster]

Your last few sentences starting at 'Turbo' are spot-on. I couldn't agree more. In fact, I was at a former Polaris dealer yesterday(that still fixes sleds), and there was a 2015 800 engine on the bench with holes in the crankcase. How disappointing.

Don't Yugos still have some 2 stroke cars? LOL...I hear they are lightweight...!

 

[SumpBuster]

Brp does have a STK.300 hp Sea Doo motor when flashed makes 340 hp .That should compete .

Good point, but there are lots of watercraft engines...for some reason they dont seem to translate to sled duty...is it the rpm? The var. pulley clutching? Marine engines typically turn less rpm than sleds...and sleds are in a pretty wild environment....but how engineers decide how to build a sled engine is fascinating...as an aside, the benchmark for a turbo (back in the 80's!) was the 1500 cc Renault F1 turbo, with up to 1600 hp in qualifying trim! Dam! (max. 3 laps set for qualifying then poof, but still...) lol
Naturally F1 changes the formula...but the tech is out there....my engineer friend from Colorado said the 998 reminded him of an F1 motor.....cool!

 

[actionjack]

If there was no 998T (SW/TC) the 900T would be THE Hyper sled. And I would have no problem owning one.

As someone who did a helluva a lot more “garage engineering” on my Apex and Attak (both beloved) I am completely indifferent to the Cat/Yamaha Hybrid DNA.

I don’t give a crap about whether Cat or Yamaha survives. The next time I buy a sled I’ll chose the one that best fits what I think my needs and wants are and hope it’s a good as my SW is.

 

[74Nitro]

I do

I think the 900T will be a great corner to corner trail sled. It will be very reliable get great fuel mileage and go over 5000 miles on the same belt. There is no way it will compete on the lakes with the Sidewinder. I have no idea why so many feel that because it's a turbo it is a hyper sled.

The Sidewinder will always be the big dog and I don't think you will ever see anything that can compete when it comes to HP or raw speed.

The big question is will Yamaha still be in the game next year or will Cat be the only option if you want the 998 Turbo?

Quite a crystal ball you have. None of this is proven until these sleds start racking up those kind of miles.

 

[stevewithOCD]

I've looked at the watercraft engines & wondered why they don't put them in sleds. I came to SOME conclusions, but i know there are more reasons.

1. Consistent cooling. Watercraft ALWAYS have enough water to cool or they wouldn't be floating.
2. Temperature. Sleds run in extreme varying temps. Few people ride watercraft on ice.
3. Size. The engine bay is much larger.
4. Weight. Some look pretty heavy and they sit on the very bottom of the hull.
5. Exhaust. There is no muffler on most. It's a marine through hull style that gets deadened by the water.
6. SALES! Although the US market is similar to sleds, i believe globally the number is triple or at least double. That means they can dump more $ into R&D.

Any other thoughts?

 

[SumpBuster]

They are made of porous unobtanium which causes them to float??
lol...I do think rpm has something to do with it. Almost all (esp.4 stroke) sleds run well in excess of 7, even 8000 rpm...boat motors usually less than 6? I think that's why Doo took a while adapting their high pressure injection (2stroke) ..with the rpm needed, there wasn't enough time to atomize the fuel..which led to cat's interesting lower pressure injection through the piston cutout or whatever...

 

[Mototown]

I think the 900T will be a great corner to corner trail sled. It will be very reliable get great fuel mileage and go over 5000 miles on the same belt. There is no way it will compete on the lakes with the Sidewinder. I have no idea why so many feel that because it's a turbo it is a hyper sled.

The Sidewinder will always be the big dog and I don't think you will ever see anything that can compete when it comes to HP or raw speed.

The big question is will Yamaha still be in the game next year or will Cat be the only option if you want the 998 Turbo?

Why do you think u are going to get 5000 miles on a belt ? If it was a Apex maybe?

 

[KnappAttack]

That is the reason skidoo isn't making a 1000cc turbo , because they can't compete against Yamaha making 4 strokes....

Have to disagree and couldn't be further from the truth. Rotax is every bit as good or even better than Yamaha. If they wanted to, they could easily best a 998. I would put the 998 third on a list of four-stroke engines built to date.

1. Yamaha RX-1 and Apex four-cylinder engines. These are far and away the finest engines ever built. Too bad they don't put them into a Doo chassis.
2. 1200 Rotax. Put a turbo on these and they are unreal and would be the Pump gas king of power and durability as built!
3. 998 Yamaha. Meh, not really that great but decent turbo engines. I'm not as impressed as others are.
4. Suzuki 1100. OK stock engines but capable of the highest boost pressures ever and the ultimate HP King for the Snow Outlaws, until Hypersports brought out there new custom built four-cylinder hand built race engine only the rich can afford.

 

[Turtle]

Good point, but there are lots of watercraft engines...for some reason they dont seem to translate to sled duty...is it the rpm? The var. pulley clutching? Marine engines typically turn less rpm than sleds...and sleds are in a pretty wild environment....but how engineers decide how to build a sled engine is fascinating...as an aside, the benchmark for a turbo (back in the 80's!) was the 1500 cc Renault F1 turbo, with up to 1600 hp in qualifying trim! Dam! (max. 3 laps set for qualifying then poof, but still...) lol
Naturally F1 changes the formula...but the tech is out there....my engineer friend from Colorado said the 998 reminded him of an F1 motor.....cool!

Just for comparison's sake ... My Yamaha AR195 jetboat has a 1.8L with a supercharger and intercooler. It's all stock and makes about 250hp. That's almost double the size of the Sidewinder engine and only 50 more hp. It spins about 7500rpm at WOT. Maybe it has more to do with the off-idle torque needed in a boat application. That's 3500lbs of hull, engine, people and gear to get moving.

 

[Mototown]

Have to disagree and couldn't be further from the truth. Rotax is every bit as good or even better than Yamaha. If they wanted to, they could easily best a 998. I would put the 998 third on a list of four-stroke engines built to date.

1. Yamaha RX-1 and Apex four-cylinder engines. These are far and away the finest engines ever built. Too bad they don't put them into a Doo chassis.
2. 1200 Rotax. Put a turbo on these and they are unreal and would be the Pump gas king of power and durability as built!
3. 998 Yamaha. Meh, not really that great but decent turbo engines. I'm not as impressed as others are.
4. Suzuki 1100. OK stock engines but capable of the highest boost pressures ever and the ultimate HP King for the Snow Outlaws, until Hypersports brought out there new custom built four-cylinder hand built race engine only the rich can afford.

If Yamaha S sidewinder was 900cc it wouldn’t be only hitting 195 hp at 16 psi of boost like the turbo ace . Face it u guys that jump back forth from skidoo, will be here a while... lol ( unless skidoo goes to a 1200 turbo then yes I guess skidoo would be king ) compare cc for cc it’s a no go ...

 

[XP123]

Why do you think u are going to get 5000 miles on a belt ? If it was a Apex maybe?

That's what I got on all my 1200's and after putting some miles on the 900 the clutches are always cool and little to no belt dust.

Heck I put almost 3000 on my Sidewinder and the stock belt was still in great shape.

 

[XP123]

I do

Quite a crystal ball you have. None of this is proven until these sleds start racking up those kind of miles.

I think this whole thread is based on a crystal ball don't you?