Will the Sidewinder ever have competition?

[74Nitro]

There's no lack of

I think this whole thread is based on a crystal ball don't you?

There's no lack of speculation. And I'm not suggesting your claims will be wrong. But only time will tell.
My neighbour has an 850, and he blew more belts per mileage than me. He added a 900T to his lineup this year, so I'm eager to get out with him and we'll see what happens.

 

[cannondale27]

Phazer 500cc and 8ohp only Yamaha can do that and mine has 23000 mi!

 

[Mototown]

Phazer 500cc and 8ohp only Yamaha can do that and mine has 23000 mi!

In reality if Yamaha put a turbo on the phaser motor it would be comparable to the ace turbo... makes u wonder if that will be one of the new sleds next year??

 

[cannondale27]

5 valve head and gear reduction with a turbo triple spinning 12000 rpm at motor and 8300rpm at clutch. That’s what Yamaha could do in their sleep.

 

[Crossfire12]

5 valve head and gear reduction with a turbo triple spinning 12000 rpm at motor and 8300rpm at clutch. That’s what Yamaha could do in their sleep.

Why don’t they! If there that good? How much would that cost, still spin 8300.

 

[Yamajon1]

And that will come with a huge price increase.

 

[WinterWolf]

998 is a sweet motor. Things can always be better on every motor and every brand. I've owned Cat, Doo and Yamaha...all have been very good, and all have had their issues. Personally I love the 998 motor so far. Loved my Apex motor too. Had a Mach Z X in 06, and it served me well for 5600 miles(but everybody was saying it was a time bomb and would eventually blow up), while a lot of other Mach owners had a lot of issues. Had a lot of Cats for a lot of years and all were very good too, but I have friends who had a lot of problems with Cats too. So far my Winder has been good...but it's only been one season and 1360 miles...so we'll see how things go this year????

Currently the 998 is the HP king plain and simple...but as others have said, that doesn't necessarily make it the best sled. But I like the big power and the very good handling of this Big Sled...so it's right for me. But it isn't right for everybody.

 

[Tarzan]

The reason the skidoo needs 16.5 to make 195hp is the head or cam timing is garbage compared to a Yamaha motor ....

The 900 have a little tiny turbo and a single trottle body,the Yamaha 998 have bigger turbo and 3 intake on the trottle body and run at 8900 rpm. If they mount a bigger turbo on the Skidoo and a bigger fuel pump and injectors then you will see bigger hp numbers on that Skidoo

 

[74Nitro]

5 valve head and gear reduction with a turbo triple spinning 12000 rpm at motor and 8300rpm at clutch. That’s what Yamaha could do in their sleep.

Cannondale, you don't want 5 valve. It is something that Yamaha thought was superior but in reality wasn't. In fact, it caused a power loss at about the 7-9000 rpm range compared to competing in line fours at the time. Just search the net for dyno graphs from that era. They first(stubbornly) abandoned it in motogp, and have since been doing the same in most of the engines they make. 4 valve is superior. The phazer was a 2 cylinder version of the 05 R-1 engine which had the 53.6mm stroke, but still used 5 valves. The o6 R-1 was the same bore and stroke as the 05 but switched to four valves. Years ago, I had always hoped Yamaha would put the 06 R-1 engine in the Apex, or at least a four valve head on the current block, but alas, it wasn't to be.

 

[cannondale27]

Cannondale, you don't want 5 valve. It is something that Yamaha thought was superior but in reality wasn't. In fact, it caused a power loss at about the 7-9000 rpm range compared to competing in line fours at the time. Just search the net for dyno graphs from that era. They first(stubbornly) abandoned it in motogp, and have since been doing the same in most of the engines they make. 4 valve is superior. The phazer was a 2 cylinder version of the 05 R-1 engine which had the 53.6mm stroke, but still used 5 valves. The o6 R-1 was the same bore and stroke as the 05 but switched to four valves. Years ago, I had always hoped Yamaha would put the 06 R-1 engine in the Apex, or at least a four valve head on the current block, but alas, it wasn't to be.

Look up Valve adjustment in the Viper section. 4 big heavy valves and the stronger springs to control them will not hold tolerance as well as the tiny 5 valves with such light pressure at high rpm. I guess the 5 valve motors have just treated me so well and this motor hasnt so I am basing it on that. Yes I sure would love to hear a Crossplane ripping down the trail though! Gives me chills just thinking about it.

 

[74Nitro]

Look up Valve adjustment in the Viper section. 4 big heavy valves and the stronger springs to control them will not hold tolerance as well as the tiny 5 valves with such light pressure at high rpm. I guess the 5 valve motors have just treated me so well and this motor hasnt so I am basing it on that. Yes I sure would love to hear a Crossplane ripping down the trail though! Gives me chills just thinking about it.

Look at motogp, everything 4 valve. 4 valve engines make more power and have a better power curve. 15000 plus rpm.
Yes, the crossplane (09 and up R-1 and the 09 WSBK series was awesome with Spies) sounds unique for sure, but I'm not sure it would ever see sled use due to the extra weight of counterbalancers needed to smooth it.

 

[74Nitro]

I'm still sticking with a full electronic valve train even though the cost to develop it would be a expense the endless possibilities of what you could achieve with such technology would send the industry upside down . You could tune that thing way beyond what you could achieve now with a tune . Having complete control over lift and duration of valves with a simple mapping adjustment without getting your hands dirty going from a mild cam to a straight up full blown race cam with simple mapping and still meeting emissions . Less moving parts which means greater reliability and lowering weight while reducing costs of manufacturing would be huge. Everyone loves the fact a 2 stroke is simple imagine if a four stroke had no cams , chain, gears only valves controlled by electric solenoids controlled by your ecu . You literally could have a naturally aspirated engine capable of 200 HP or more at or above sea level consistently while surpassing emissions and weighing within 20lbs of its 2 stroke competitors . It's already being done in the automotive industry why can't it be seen in power sports

And it could reverse like 2 strokes, but we are years from seeing anything like that in sleds I'm afraid.

 

[cannondale27]

I'm still sticking with a full electronic valve train even though the cost to develop it would be a expense the endless possibilities of what you could achieve with such technology would send the industry upside down . You could tune that thing way beyond what you could achieve now with a tune . Having complete control over lift and duration of valves with a simple mapping adjustment without getting your hands dirty going from a mild cam to a straight up full blown race cam with simple mapping and still meeting emissions . Less moving parts which means greater reliability and lowering weight while reducing costs of manufacturing would be huge. Everyone loves the fact a 2 stroke is simple imagine if a four stroke had no cams , chain, gears only valves controlled by electric solenoids controlled by your ecu . You literally could have a naturally aspirated engine capable of 200 HP or more at or above sea level consistently while surpassing emissions and weighing within 20lbs of its 2 stroke competitors . It's already being done in the automotive industry why can't it be seen in power sports

I like the sound of that!

 

[Mototown]

IMO I think the skidoo 900 is a pretty slick marketing tool. I like how you can dial the power up and down for younger or less aggressive riders. It has more HP out of the box then a viper ....HP alone doesn't complete the experience 4 me . My grandma had a station wagon with a 429 Im pretty sure she couldn't run with a small block muscle car. Two stroke guys aren't worried about any 4 stroke made and skidoo thought they would get a market share of grandma's grocery getter as well .

If u are comparing a ford 429 to a small block chev 400 ... the first problem is that it's a ford .... kinda like it's a skidoo motor ... lol u need more cubic inches.....

 

[Mototown]

Look up Valve adjustment in the Viper section. 4 big heavy valves and the stronger springs to control them will not hold tolerance as well as the tiny 5 valves with such light pressure at high rpm. I guess the 5 valve motors have just treated me so well and this motor hasnt so I am basing it on that. Yes I sure would love to hear a Crossplane ripping down the trail though! Gives me chills just thinking about it.

The 5 valve dirt bikes were really reliable, they actually had less reliability when they went to 4 valves configuration because of valve weight. But it costs more for them to make the 5 valve head.