Yamaha has new sleds coming

[20/80]

way - too - much - facebook

Every car manufacturer on the planet would pay billions for such a device because it would give them such a huge advantage over the competition. If even one car company had this mystical device the entire conversion to EV would grind to a halt as the success in one company would allow the rest to have a target to achieve. This would allow the car companies to save 10s of billions of dollars on annual R&D, and they would get to tell a story about being more efficient and to not scare people with the conversion to EV. .. But still, despite that, 'Some Guy' invented 'something' that defies physics in multiple ways and 'some oil company' happened to find out about it, a device that has never been recreated despite the billions of dollars in reward money available.. Please.. But some guy in new brunswick figured it out.. ffs.

To give you an idea of how big that reward money could be The following is a table of the amount of money being poured by major car manufacturers into R&D and Production for EV vehicles. These are all numbers committed to the government and wall street (the investors).

Company	Annual $Biilions	Total Budget $Billions	Target Date
BMW	$ 2.3	$ 18.0	2030​
Ford	$ 7.4	$ 22.0	2025​
GM	$ 11.7	$ 35.0	2025​
Hyundai	$ 2.5	$ 7.4	2025​
Jaguar	$ 3.5	$ 28.0	2030​
Mercedes	$ 5.9	$ 47.0	2030​
Nissan	$ 1.2	$ 3.6	2025​
Stellantis	$ 1.3	$ 35.5	2050​
Toyota	$ 5.4	$ 16.0	2025​
Volkswagen (porsche, Audi)	$ 10.8	$ 86.0	2030​
Volvo	$ 1.3	$ 10.0	2030​
Total	$ 53.3	$ 308.5

That is some pretty expensive window dressing..

There was a documentary on this device quite few years ago now, long before face book, during the carb years for cars and trucks, during the oil embargo in the early 70's this guy invented this, major oil company owns the patten now, it would have been worth millions at the time but of course the oil company knew that and got the patten for a song, inventor at the time thought a million bucks was alot for the 70's, true story, do you actually think oil company's would release this invention, there in the business of selling oil not saving, oil companies rule the car industry and pretty much everything else, still true till this day, surely somebody as smart as you would know this much, FFs

 

[earthling]

There was a documentary on this device quite few years ago now, long before face book, during the carb years for cars and trucks, major oil company owns the patten now, it would have been worth millions at the time but of course the oil company new that and got the patten for a song, inventor at the time thought a million bucks was alot for the 70's, true story.

True story... you have evidence then.. anything.. I will wait.. Documentary does not mean true, documentary means 'based on documented sources'. It means you can have a documentary about the earth being flat or a cow jumping over the moon and its still a documentary, that does not make it true.. I will however wait for the evidence. The documentary would have been titled 'most gullible man on the planet'.

As far as them getting it 'for a song' don't be silly, it would have been worth billions even then. It would be worth more than a trillion today. An engineer in canada invented a magical device that is worth billions and can't do the math required to figure out it is worth more than a million?

Facebook thinking says that the oil companies wouldn't want a device that made engines more efficient, which is of course completely ludicrous. The game is stacked against big oil and the future is bleak unless they find a way to convert to more green energy. If Imperial Oil had access to that technology, technology that would redefine the lifespan of fossil fuels globally they could sell it for Trillions (more than a million, million) today. Pure profit. Imperial Oils total net revenue for last year was $12.3 Billion on which they had 1 billion in gross profit. They could make 1000 times that (1000 years of business profitability with zero risk) in one transaction and secure their business for over 100 years if such a device existed. Instead they risk billions every year searching for and producing new oil resources for less than 10% gross operating profits.

There isn't an oil oligarch on the planet that wouldn't take that win. If you converted that value into a string of dollar bills stacked end to end would wrap around the earth 4 times, for basically handing over a stack of paperwork and a prototype.

Just another little piece of the facebook stupidity. The lifespan of a patent is 17 years, that means that any protection on that magical device would have expired in the 90s. 22+ years since then and nobody has it on the market, a market that would want it and for which just the upgrade market (add to old cars) revenue would be worth a trillion on its own, a market defining technology which would ensure that the biggest long term profit would go to the oil companies, and would secure their viability for 100 years. Really? Seriously.. I mean.. how does this story stand up to even the most basic scrutiny.

 

[STAIN]

The MPG Conspiracy Theory Is Crap, And Here's Why

A conspiracy theory has floated around the Internet for years. There is a car technology, or, in some cases, a whole car, that has been suppressed in the name of oil profits. Big Oil, working with Big Car, is holding us back from our efficient future. It's wrong, and this is why.

jalopnik.com

 

[Kascade]

if ever the decline in need for gas/ diesel, the refineries will shut down, storage facilities will contract along with exploration...with less need for infrastructure the cost would actually go up for carbon fuel...keeping the pipelines, ships and distribution going for less need would increase the unit cost in my opinion.

Sailor, good point, I tend to agree. Anyhooo...my main point being the whole "I like A, so B sucks!" thing is kind of silly to me. The more options the better, in my book.

I can't believe somebody dropped the "secret MPG device big oil doesn't want you to know about!!" hoax though. It's been a while since I had seen that one go around.

 

[20/80]

True story... you have evidence then.. anything.. I will wait.. Documentary does not mean true, documentary means 'based on documented sources'. It means you can have a documentary about the earth being flat or a cow jumping over the moon and its still a documentary, that does not make it true.. I will however wait for the evidence. The documentary would have been titled 'most gullible man on the planet'.

As far as them getting it 'for a song' don't be silly, it would have been worth billions even then. It would be worth more than a trillion today. An engineer in canada invented a magical device that is worth billions and can't do the math required to figure out it is worth more than a million?

Facebook thinking says that the oil companies wouldn't want a device that made engines more efficient, which is of course completely ludicrous. The game is stacked against big oil and the future is bleak unless they find a way to convert to more green energy. If Imperial Oil had access to that technology, technology that would redefine the lifespan of fossil fuels globally they could sell it for Trillions (more than a million, million) today. Pure profit. Imperial Oils total net revenue for last year was $12.3 Billion on which they had 1 billion in gross profit. They could make 1000 times that (1000 years of business profitability with zero risk) in one transaction and secure their business for over 100 years if such a device existed. Instead they risk billions every year searching for and producing new oil resources for less than 10% gross operating profits.

There isn't an oil oligarch on the planet that wouldn't take that win. If you converted that value into a string of dollar bills stacked end to end would wrap around the earth 4 times, for basically handing over a stack of paperwork and a prototype.

Just another little piece of the facebook stupidity. The lifespan of a patent is 17 years, that means that any protection on that magical device would have expired in the 90s. 22+ years since then and nobody has it on the market, a market that would want it and for which just the upgrade market (add to old cars) revenue would be worth a trillion on its own, a market defining technology which would ensure that the biggest long term profit would go to the oil companies, and would secure their viability for 100 years. Really? Seriously.. I mean.. how does this story stand up to even the most basic scrutiny.

actually its 2 decades for a patten release, when was the last time you seen a 4 barrel carb on a new vehicle sitting on a lot that this device would work on, that patten was swept under the carpet never to be seen again long ago, that's why there was a documentary on it years ago with the inventor which was still under a legal gag order, but he told his story anyway, he was to old to worry about any gag order anymore, he had some pictures of it on one of his test cars, it was a very interesting documentary, all evidence of this patten and documentary has been removed, I was glad I got to see it, you can come up with all the flow charts and profit margins and fact sheets in the world that would make sense for the oil company to use this patten device but they had other reasons.

 

[Kascade]

actually its 2 decades for a patten release, when was the last time you seen a 4 barrel carb on a new vehicle sitting on a lot that this device would work on, that patten was swept under the carpet never to be seen again long ago, that's why there was a documentary on it years ago with the inventor which was still under a legal gag order, but he told his story anyway, he was to old to worry about any gag order anymore, he had some pictures of it on one of his test cars, it was a very interesting documentary, all evidence of this patten and documentary has been removed, I was glad I got to see it, you can come up with all the flow charts and profit margins and fact sheets in the world that would make sense for the oil company to use this patten device but they had other reasons.

You don't see carbs on cars because fuel injection is superior.

Sorry man, don't know what else to tell you then it's a conspiracy theory, isn't even a sliver true, and you've been fooled.

 

[earthling]

actually its 2 decades for a patten release, when was the last time you seen a 4 barrel carb on a new vehicle sitting on a lot that this device would work on, that patten was swept under the carpet never to be seen again long ago, that's why there was a documentary on it years ago with the inventor which was still under a legal gag order, but he told his story anyway, he was to old to worry about any gag order anymore, he had some pictures of it on one of his test cars, it was a very interesting documentary, all evidence of this patten and documentary has been removed, I was glad I got to see it, you can come up with all the flow charts and profit margins and fact sheets in the world that would make sense for the oil company to use this patten device but they had other reasons.

Actually no. Its 20 years from the earliest filing date or 17 years from when it is granted. It is generally considered to be 17 years of protection because up until you your patent application moves from filed to granted (which can take years) your patent is unprotected, and actual protection starts when it is granted and that lifespan is 17 years. The reason the 20 year rule comes in is to protect the system against submarine patents where a company can file but stall prosecution (processing) through multiple filings, stalling tactics, etc.. If a company tries to take a submarine strategy the 20 year rule kicks in and limits the effective patent lifespan. Any of the administrators of this forum and I assume the moderators can look up my real name on patents.Justia.com and tell you that I have some experience in the subject of patents.

So your evidence has conveniently been lost. Too bad it doesn't work that way except in the feeble minds of facebook conspiracy theorists.

You cannot remove a patent, it cannot be deleted, it cannot be hidden, it cannot be manipulated. It just doesn't work that way. Once you file, every correspondence is archived in a process and all of it is public record for the asking. And all patents are required to list prior art and references, all of which are cross referenced in the system. You cannot purchase a patent without reassigning the patent. The patent goes through a process whereby the buyer becomes the new registered owner, again - that is part of the public record. Even expired patents stay in the system. So.. knock yourself out trying to find the non-existent patent

.

 

[20/80]

Actually no. Its 20 years from the earliest filing date or 17 years from when it is granted. It is generally considered to be 17 years of protection because up until you your patent application moves from filed to granted (which can take years) your patent is unprotected, and actual protection starts when it is granted and that lifespan is 17 years. The reason the 20 year rule comes in is to protect the system against submarine patents where a company can file but stall prosecution (processing) through multiple filings, stalling tactics, etc.. If a company tries to take a submarine strategy the 20 year rule kicks in and limits the effective patent lifespan. Any of the administrators of this forum and I assume the moderators can look up my real name on patents.Justia.com and tell you that I have some experience in the subject of patents.

So your evidence has conveniently been lost. Too bad it doesn't work that way except in the feeble minds of facebook conspiracy theorists.

You cannot remove a patent, it cannot be deleted, it cannot be hidden, it cannot be manipulated. It just doesn't work that way. Once you file, every correspondence is archived in a process and all of it is public record for the asking. And all patents are required to list prior art and references, all of which are cross referenced in the system. You cannot purchase a patent without reassigning the patent. The patent goes through a process whereby the buyer becomes the new registered owner, again - that is part of the public record. Even expired patents stay in the system. So.. knock yourself out trying to find the non-existent patent

.

Not sure what world your living in or reality earthling, sorry to break the news to you but huge oil companies can hide, manipulate, remove documents and evidence to a degree that you or I can't even fathom, they have the money and the power and control of the governments, tell me I'm wrong, I'm sure I was not the only one to see the aired show so many years ago. cheers

 

[20/80]

You don't see carbs on cars because fuel injection is superior.

Sorry man, don't know what else to tell you then it's a conspiracy theory, isn't even a sliver true, and you've been fooled.

oh for sure fuel injection is superior, but this was in the carb years early 70's, not sure if its a conspiracy or not but sure was a interesting documentary just the same.

 

[VX1R]

Wow....I've been away from the site for awhile and clicked on this thread. The name of the thread is "Yamaha has new sleds coming".

Talk about "click bait!"

I've never seen a thread get this derailed before.

Will I check back tomorrow?

As Johnny Skeptical would say...."Darn Tootin' I will!"

No offence to anyone who's contributed so far is intended

 

[Kascade]

Not sure what world your living in or reality earthling, sorry to break the news to you but huge oil companies can hide, manipulate, remove documents and evidence to a degree that you or I can't even fathom, they have the money and the power and control of the governments, tell me I'm wrong, I'm sure I was not the only one to see the aired show so many years ago. cheers

The reality that earthling is living in is... Well... Actually reality. I promise man, the "documentary" you watched just isn't true. This mystery device never existed and this hoax is old and recycled with a variety of stories behind it. It's an older one, it's a known viral hoax. A good rule of thumb is when you "know" something and pretty much everybody else is telling you it's wrong... The most logical explanation is that you are the one that is wrong.

 

[earthling]

Not sure what world your living in or reality earthling, sorry to break the news to you but huge oil companies can hide, manipulate, remove documents and evidence to a degree that you or I can't even fathom, they have the money and the power and control of the governments, tell me I'm wrong, I'm sure I was not the only one to see the aired show so many years ago. cheers

Oh, you saw a television show, you should have said so. So you have no practical experience in the field (you have not offered up even the theory of how said invention works), you are not an engineer so you don't understand the science and why it isn't possible, you have no evidence as it was mysteriously disappeared by some mega corporation, no personal knowledge of same, can't discuss it beyond "I heard a guy said a guy said a company did a thing", and obviously don't know how the patent system works or how the public record works but you did see a TV show. Thanks for setting me straight.

I apologize to anyone who stumbles across the thread, I should know better.

 

[20/80]

Oh, you saw a television show, you should have said so. So you have no practical experience in the field (you have not offered up even the theory of how said invention works), you are not an engineer so you don't understand the science and why it isn't possible, you have no evidence as it was mysteriously disappeared by some mega corporation, no personal knowledge of same, can't discuss it beyond "I heard a guy said a guy said a company did a thing", and obviously don't know how the patent system works or how the public record works but you did see a TV show. Thanks for setting me straight.

I apologize to anyone who stumbles across the thread, I should know better.

I just watched a interesting documentary ffs, lol. your meds are not working

 

[74Nitro]

Here is my take on electric vs fossil in general...and more for cars since that's the vast majority of the transportation market, where as snowmobiles are a drop in the bucket. Electric and fossil are different. Neither is inherently better or worse. With current technology, the use case for most snowmobilers leads to gas being the superior option. But technology gets better and electric could well open up the market to new consumers, or those who a 50km mile day of riding is all they do. Internal combustion engines have had a century to be refined, not to mention for the distribution network to be built out. The whole "but you can't build that many electric chargers!" arguement is 10000% BUNK. Imagine starting from scratch, which would be easier to build out: a system to refine gas, store, distribute across a country, pump, etc or transferring electricity? Electricity by a country mile, but gas has a 100 year head start and infrastructure that is already there that we take for granted. It had to be built at one point though...

The silliest anti-electric car argument I hear is "but then I can't use it for a 2000 mile road trip!" C'mon, seriously? That applies to probably 5% of the car buying public. For the 95% that just use it for transportation around cities, getting to work, running errands, etc. electric is absolutely the better option. Those of us that travel long distances, tow crap, go to the mountains, etc. will be on gas for the foreseeable future. But guess what? Lower the demand on gas from those folks that don't need it, and it should get cheaper for those of us who do...

The entire thing is a dumb argument. Both systems have their pros and cons, and more choice is better. If I could buy 2 awesome electric sleds right now with 100km of range for local riding with wife or a friend, I totally would. I'd also keep my gas sled...

Not silly at all and why 2000 miles?
As cool as I think the new Ford lightning is, it's no good to me if I cant go north pulling four machines 8 hours straight.

 

[earthling]

I just watched a interesting documentary ffs, lol. your meds are not working