Yamaha's new sled requirements for the "POWER MONGERS&a

[KnappAttack]

I for one would like to put my wish list up for the new sled so there is some time to get it built how we want to see it done. I want Yamaha to build me the sled I want. I don't want to switch brands again. I learned a few things with the Turbo Cat I had for half of this last season.

The three things I liked about the Cat:

1. The ride, very nice ride with the Sno-Pro package. Supple without bottoming. Silly as that sounds for a sno-pro package. The Z1 Turbo is not snow-cross rough like a F1000 is in a sno-pro version.

2. The handling, very stable and able to rip around corners faster, had to, it didn't have engine braking which sucked!!!

3. Nice and quiet in stock form, much quieter than a Apex and NO drone!! Even though it sounded like a lawn mower when it idled, it was still quiet when riding. I believe this is due to an exhaust outlet at the front of sled. No resonance frequencies being amplified in the tunnel.

So those were the only three good things to say about the Cat. It was slow in stock form and couldn't run with my old 07 Attak. It wasted all its power thru the clutches and short of going back to the jackshaft design and old style clutches with different angles there real is no fix for blowing belts and wasting power away.





NOW FOR MY WISH LIST FOR MY NEW YAMAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1. MORE POWER, 180 REAL HP will do on regular 87 octane fuel. Naturally aspirated is fine. Even if you have to increase displacement to 1200cc's. I know asking for more is unrealistic but feel free to indulge! Fuel mileage should be on par with the Apex or better with todays technology! A linear and wide powerband too please. Oh, and please, please KEEP the engine braking!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2. RIDE AND HANDLING (EQUAL TO OR BETTER THAN, THE CAT AND DOO'S), ride them both and you'll see where I'm coming from on this one. I don't care how you arrive there, but there is no reason you can't with the engineering and knowhow at your fingertips.

3. WEIGHT, again, the know how is at your fingertips to take some real weight off. I'm not saying strength needs to be sacrificed, but there is alot of iron on these machines that dosn't need to be there.

4. NON DRAGGING, NON STICKING HYFAX, My cat didn't do it, there is no reason a Yamaha has to. Lets correct this. Heat exchangers that double as tunnel protectors perhaps? Which leads me to my next wish.

5. COOLERS/HEAT EXCHANGERS, need I say more? lets put them in the first go around and not endure a clearance penalty. Heres an idea. They could double as the tunnel protectors hence reducing weight and lubricating the track and hyfax!

6. QUIET, I WANT QUIET PLEASE, find a way to tone down the drone at 35-50 MPH from the tunnel amplified exhaust/track please.

7. KEEP THE DRIVELINE/CHASSIS EFFICIENCY YOU HAVE NOW, Don't go straying away from mechanical reverse and the efficient and durable clutches you have now to cut costs such as others did with the POS Diamond Drive, or Team type compression secondary. Yamaha has proven to transmit power without blowing belts and I don't want this to change.

8. REAL WIND PROTECTION AND HANDWARMERS THAT WORK, It's been done before.

9. 11-12 GALLON GAS TANKS, none of this limited small 7.5 gal tank crap for your next sled.

10. POWER STEERING WOULD BE NICE, perhaps as an option at least?

12. WOULD A FACTORY INSTALLED ICERIPPER BE TO MUCH TO WISH FOR? In a 136 track length please!

12. PRICE, people will buy a quality sled at a fair price. Make money and stay in business, but keep it reasonable. This machine can be built efficiently without to many added costs. Just keep it fair.


I'm sure I'm missing a few things here but it's not asking for too much.
Wonder If I'll end up with one of these in my garage for model year 2011?
Anyone else think of anything I'm missing?

 

[ahicks]

Give me the option of a shortie with the Nytro (or similar) skid under it, some decent or high end shock options, then fix some of the smaller stuff (exhaust donuts, crap bearings (or none) at obvious wear points front and rear, install zerks on PTO side shafts, new ski design, etc.) and I'd be back.

I'm always up for more power, but it ain't all that bad the way it is for trail....

If I have to build another one to have it my way, the 1200 Doo is much closer than anything Yammi is offering today....

 

[APEX 06]

I would like to have a APEX with a 144" track and about 180 hp. Not in a mountain sled a trail sled would be nice. I had a NYTRO XTX and I did not like love APEX.

 

[tryanATTAK]

I too would like a 144" option on an LTX. More power would be great but losing some weight without sacrificing the strength would be even better. A taller seat for the Apex and adjustable height handle bars. Mike I didn't know you got rid of the Cat. Did you trade it in at M&M in Hancock, Mi. ? I was up there right after you were talking about the Cat not being able to beat your stock Attak and saw a SnoPRO Turbo Cat there that had all kinds of mods that they were selling and said the guy that traded it in got an Apex and then put a turbo on it. I know a little off subject but I couldn't help but wonder if it was yours.

 

[Grimm]

I guess in these tougher economic times, there may be a slight chance that Yamaha will address a couple of issues, since they seem to be pushing their "customer service" thing this model year. Maybe Yamaha will finally listen to Customers' concerns on how to improve some quirks in the design of these sleds.

I can see them coming through on a couple of your wishes: power steering (in the works, see patents) and keeping the efficient driveline (no extra work or funds needed, pretty easy to sit back and do nothing there). The extra power thing may come true too as horsepower generally draws attention and sales. I think Yamaha also realizes that the 7 1/2 gallon tank on the Nytros was a silly move and created negative publicity. I don't think you'll see this happen again in the near future.

However, I feel that the rest of your wishes will again fall on deaf ears, as these are the same things many of us have complained about for years.

 

[KnappAttack]

I too would like a 144" option on an LTX. More power would be great but losing some weight without sacrificing the strength would be even better. A taller seat for the Apex and adjustable height handle bars. Mike I didn't know you got rid of the Cat. Did you trade it in at M&M in Hancock, Mi. ? I was up there right after you were talking about the Cat not being able to beat your stock Attak and saw a SnoPRO Turbo Cat there that had all kinds of mods that they were selling and said the guy that traded it in got an Apex and then put a turbo on it. I know a little off subject but I couldn't help but wonder if it was yours.

Sold it outright after adding Boondocker and methanol injection. At 280 HP it wouldn't outrun my neighbors RX-1 with 7.5 lb. boost CPR turbo I installed @195 HP years ago.


There is one more thing I forgot that I liked about the Cat and that was the adjustable bar settings and the adjustable seat. Nice features there for sure.

I for one wouldn't want a 144" for my use. The option for off trail use for the guys wanting it would be nice, but I won't buy it if that is all it is. Going that long doesn't seem to add to the ride comfort over the 136" like the 136" does over the 121". I'm all for the ride comfort!

I too would buy a Ski-Doo Renegade 137" 1200 at the moment if I was purchasing another machine just for a change. I love my Attak's but I have had so many that I just need a change. Sure like Yamaha's dependability and performance! Excellent machines but I can't live with the same chassis for over 4 years, that is why I had to try the Cat out. I won't go Cat again unless the diamond drive goes by by and they improve on the build quality. I don't see that happening with the crew in Thief River right now. Cat has many issues with the big turbo, thats for sure.

 

[yamadog1]

sled

thanks mike for your wish list, it seems pretty straight forward to me
your not asking for more than ski-doo offers, i know yamaha will listen to you more then they would most members. all my buds ride ski-doo
and they have some problems that they should not have.

 

[SledFreak]

Mike, I agree with most of which you said.. They need to really work on their weight (without giving up dependability/reliability), handling and ride comfort. Their's a ton weight I feel can be removed from these sleds and I'm am know engineer. There shock calibration is just un-acceptable. I wish for the exhaust to come out the front as well, unless they can figure out a way to get rid of that drone. It's very annoying. Their's only one thing that bennefits the exhaust from going out the back and that's the look it provides. There's more than more reason is it's NOT a bennefit and it's the annoying drone sound, giving up valueable cargo space on the rear of the sled and the amount of ice build up is incredable from the snow melting and sticking to the tunnel. Good thing my sled sits in a heated garage after every ride. I feel that they are engineering around the exhaust and the suspension and chassis is suffering from it.

 

[KnappAttack]

I think the rear exit style exhaust Yamaha runs is the best in the biz, I really like it and it works very well. They just need to figure a way to quench the drone or resonance that occurs at a certain speed range. I believe the tunnel amplifies the vibrations and it ends up making noise under there like a stereo speaker would within a certain speed/RPM range.

The Cat also had icing issues in the tunnel, in fact I had a chunk go thru and rip the rivets right out of the bulkhead and bend up the junction area at the bulkhead/tunnel area. Never ever had that happen on a Yamaha in many years of use and sitting outside on nights on trips in the UP even. Cat did it on a one day outing after being in a heated garage at home!

 

[tkuss]

Personally I don't think Yamaha will every come up with a 180hp sled, at least within the next few years. I believe there is not enough of a market for one for Yamaha to build it. Even if they did, with the current price jump, I would think the sled would be going for over 15,000$. Because of all the aftermarket accesories out to easily boost these Yamahas over 200hp I don't think Yamaha will build the sled, instead I think they will just leave the few people who want the big horsepower build there own sled, or go to another brand.

I also thought Yamaha was a bit behind on there suspension and shock technology, but after riding an 08 Nytro RTX in the rough trails, that suspension really performs. It is stiff, but it can really take the big bumps awesome without bottoming out.

For me I would like to see Yamaha stay with the same horsepower classes they have, but drop a few pounds. I don't think that will happen to soon, as the current Yamaha seem to me at least to be selling pretty good.

I was happy with what they did for 2010. Whoever buys the 2010's I think will have a very reliable sled with many of the bugs and former complaints worked out.

I am having fun keeping my 06 Apex and slowly turning it into the sled I want it to be. Each year I am fixing what I don't like about it, and turning it into a pretty fun sled.

 

[kinger]

I think your asking for too much personally Yamaha puts out a great sled for the masses its up to each indivdual to customize to thier tastes. Last year you threatend to leave the brand and went out and bought a Cat and hated it now your back asking for more. That is all yamaha needs to see that their product is good.

Besides cutting weight, adding powersteering, ice ripper track, etc are all just PERSONAL preferences.

You got the money to make the sled how you want it why do you want yamaha to?

I am with tkuss - every year I get to tinker just enough to keep the peace with the wife and love my sled more then the year before.

 

[KnappAttack]

I've turboed, supercharged and tinkered enough with the Attak for 5 years now and I for one am growing impatient of riding the same chassis. I, like many others, am looking for a factory hot rod with a warranty. I don't want to throw a bunch of aftermarket items on a machine and void the warranty or make it louder or less reliable anymore. The market is there for added performance and comfort, trust me. The track is just a wish to keep cost down as adding it as an option.

 

[SledFreak]

I think the rear exit style exhaust Yamaha runs is the best in the biz, I really like it and it works very well. They just need to figure a way to quench the drone or resonance that occurs at a certain speed range. I believe the tunnel amplifies the vibrations and it ends up making noise under there like a stereo speaker would within a certain speed/RPM range.

The Cat also had icing issues in the tunnel, in fact I had a chunk go thru and rip the rivets right out of the bulkhead and bend up the junction area at the bulkhead/tunnel area. Never ever had that happen on a Yamaha in many years of use and sitting outside on nights on trips in the UP even. Cat did it on a one day outing after being in a heated garage at home!

Knapp, It may work well, but it has it's cons to as well. I did an overnight to WAWA Ont and when I came home and solid 5" block of ice fell out of the back of the tunnel of my Apex. I have never seen that much ice build on a snowmobile. It had to weight 40-50lbs. Even my buds F1000 does not do that and they are almost the same chassis as the Turbo. I think your wrong on the ice build up issue. It's the exhaust... The ice build up bothers me more than the drone. The drone also seems to be more on the 4 clylinder Apex than the 3 cylinder XTX.

 

[SledFreak]

Personally I don't think Yamaha will every come up with a 180hp sled, at least within the next few years. I believe there is not enough of a market for one for Yamaha to build it. Even if they did, with the current price jump, I would think the sled would be going for over 15,000$. Because of all the aftermarket accesories out to easily boost these Yamahas over 200hp I don't think Yamaha will build the sled, instead I think they will just leave the few people who want the big horsepower build there own sled, or go to another brand.

I also thought Yamaha was a bit behind on there suspension and shock technology, but after riding an 08 Nytro RTX in the rough trails, that suspension really performs. It is stiff, but it can really take the big bumps awesome without bottoming out.

For me I would like to see Yamaha stay with the same horsepower classes they have, but drop a few pounds. I don't think that will happen to soon, as the current Yamaha seem to me at least to be selling pretty good.

I was happy with what they did for 2010. Whoever buys the 2010's I think will have a very reliable sled with many of the bugs and former complaints worked out.

I am having fun keeping my 06 Apex and slowly turning it into the sled I want it to be. Each year I am fixing what I don't like about it, and turning it into a pretty fun sled.

I agree here. I think it will be 165hp, once broken in maybe 170hp.

 

[blade072]

Icing in tunnel

I think the rear exit style exhaust Yamaha runs is the best in the biz, I really like it and it works very well. They just need to figure a way to quench the drone or resonance that occurs at a certain speed range. I believe the tunnel amplifies the vibrations and it ends up making noise under there like a stereo speaker would within a certain speed/RPM range.

The Cat also had icing issues in the tunnel, in fact I had a chunk go thru and rip the rivets right out of the bulkhead and bend up the junction area at the bulkhead/tunnel area. Never ever had that happen on a Yamaha in many years of use and sitting outside on nights on trips in the UP even. Cat did it on a one day outing after being in a heated garage at home!

Knapp, It may work well, but it has it's cons to as well. I did an overnight to WAWA Ont and when I came home and solid 5" block of ice fell out of the back of the tunnel of my Apex. I have never seen that much ice build on a snowmobile. It had to weight 40-50lbs. Even my buds F1000 does not do that and they are almost the same chassis as the Turbo. I think your wrong on the ice build up issue. It's the exhaust... The ice build up bothers me more than the drone. The drone also seems to be more on the 4 clylinder Apex than the 3 cylinder XTX.

Do you have a rear heat exchanger?
I added one to my Attak GT and it eliminated the icing. The extra weight of the heat exchanger is far less than those large chunks of ice.
Jim