Yamaha's new sled requirements for the "POWER MONGERS&a

[SledFreak]

Oh, Yes, I had it and it still holds alot of ice. It was even worse before that..

 

[APEX 06]

I ride in the UP alot, backwoods, on trails you name it and i have never had alot of ice buildup. As of last year I own two apexs one RTX and one MTX and they both hold very little ice. O and one more thing I love the exhaust its the best one out there by far. Sorry if i come off as an #*$&@ I just love the APEX.

 

[kinger]

Not a apex but on my RX1 with a rear heat exchanger I always get a big chunk of ice after even 100 miles of trails. I just kick it off after I come out of the establishment as its in the back of the sled. Never got any in the tunnel itself, just around that rear heat exchanger.

 

[welterracer]

Its definitly the exhaust that causes the ice build up..

I really dont think you can eliminate any weight off the apex and keep it durable.. the 2010s are heavier than the 06s.. but for a reason.. Heavier rear suspension arms, beafed up radiator, etc..

The apex is what it is.. A great trail sled thats super reliable and got better with age.. It may not ride or handle as good as a cat in stock form.. but it runs and drives better then they ever will..

I think the Fx nytro is the sled to go with.. Add your turbo to that and a bigger winshield and go..

I think eventually they will have a apex version of the Nytro.. maybe 1200 ccs and 145-155hp

 

[Superman]

We'll see. I think natural evolution will improve on some or all of Knapp's requests. ... Noise is probably the biggest thing I see on his request list for me though. Quieter the better. 180 hp would be one of those "core needs" that would be cool also. Damn why not 200 hp? LOL.

 

[apltx08]

The harder you ride the less ice build-up you have cuz of more HEAT generated to actually melt the ice & slush build-up...the other thing of noticed is the colder the weather gets the MORE build-up you get and if you ride in powder its even worst...its really improved after installing a rear heat exchanger...my buddy removed his tunnel protectors and it also helped some he doesn't run STUD'S but if you do you can't remove them.

 

[jds1000]

Re: Yamaha's new sled requirements for the "POWER MONGE

I for one would like to put my wish list up for the new sled so there is some time to get it built how we want to see it done. I want Yamaha to build me the sled I want. I don't want to switch brands again. I learned a few things with the Turbo Cat I had for half of this last season.

The three things I liked about the Cat:

1. The ride, very nice ride with the Sno-Pro package. Supple without bottoming. Silly as that sounds for a sno-pro package. The Z1 Turbo is not snow-cross rough like a F1000 is in a sno-pro version.

2. The handling, very stable and able to rip around corners faster, had to, it didn't have engine braking which sucked!!!

3. Nice and quiet in stock form, much quieter than a Apex and NO drone!! Even though it sounded like a lawn mower when it idled, it was still quiet when riding. I believe this is due to an exhaust outlet at the front of sled. No resonance frequencies being amplified in the tunnel.

So those were the only three good things to say about the Cat. It was slow in stock form and couldn't run with my old 07 Attak. It wasted all its power thru the clutches and short of going back to the jackshaft design and old style clutches with different angles there real is no fix for blowing belts and wasting power away.





NOW FOR MY WISH LIST FOR MY NEW YAMAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1. MORE POWER, 180 REAL HP will do on regular 87 octane fuel. Naturally aspirated is fine. Even if you have to increase displacement to 1200cc's. I know asking for more is unrealistic but feel free to indulge! Fuel mileage should be on par with the Apex or better with todays technology! A linear and wide powerband too please. Oh, and please, please KEEP the engine braking!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2. RIDE AND HANDLING (EQUAL TO OR BETTER THAN, THE CAT AND DOO'S), ride them both and you'll see where I'm coming from on this one. I don't care how you arrive there, but there is no reason you can't with the engineering and knowhow at your fingertips.

3. WEIGHT, again, the know how is at your fingertips to take some real weight off. I'm not saying strength needs to be sacrificed, but there is alot of iron on these machines that dosn't need to be there.

4. NON DRAGGING, NON STICKING HYFAX, My cat didn't do it, there is no reason a Yamaha has to. Lets correct this. Heat exchangers that double as tunnel protectors perhaps? Which leads me to my next wish.

5. COOLERS/HEAT EXCHANGERS, need I say more? lets put them in the first go around and not endure a clearance penalty. Heres an idea. They could double as the tunnel protectors hence reducing weight and lubricating the track and hyfax!

6. QUIET, I WANT QUIET PLEASE, find a way to tone down the drone at 35-50 MPH from the tunnel amplified exhaust/track please.

7. KEEP THE DRIVELINE/CHASSIS EFFICIENCY YOU HAVE NOW, Don't go straying away from mechanical reverse and the efficient and durable clutches you have now to cut costs such as others did with the POS Diamond Drive, or Team type compression secondary. Yamaha has proven to transmit power without blowing belts and I don't want this to change.

8. REAL WIND PROTECTION AND HANDWARMERS THAT WORK, It's been done before.

9. 11-12 GALLON GAS TANKS, none of this limited small 7.5 gal tank crap for your next sled.

10. POWER STEERING WOULD BE NICE, perhaps as an option at least?

12. WOULD A FACTORY INSTALLED ICERIPPER BE TO MUCH TO WISH FOR? In a 136 track length please!

12. PRICE, people will buy a quality sled at a fair price. Make money and stay in business, but keep it reasonable. This machine can be built efficiently without to many added costs. Just keep it fair.


I'm sure I'm missing a few things here but it's not asking for too much.
Wonder If I'll end up with one of these in my garage for model year 2011?
Anyone else think of anything I'm missing?

I like your wish list and agree with most of it. I don't need or want anymore power since I trail ride and like backpack touring over racing. Most if not all my wishes have been answered with the Doo 1200 X I purchased last year. My dealer installed the Iceripper on my 1200 and I will never own another sled without one. The only real flaw with the 1200 is the price. Ski Doo's are too damn expensive and make Yamahas look like a deal compared to them. The handling, weight, easy steering, larger fuel tank, wind protection, non sticking hyfax and quiet operation have all been acomplished by Doo and I don't understand why Yamaha can't equal or exceed Doo in these areas.

 

[KnappAttack]

jds1000, The Ski-Doo is what I'm looking for with 180-200HP. That would be just about perfect. Hopefully Yamaha will get there first and not let Ski-Doo out shine them. Its time to get aggressive Yamaha!!!!! I just hope I can hold out another season. I was pricing the Renegade this spring already. Got a price of $8500 for an 09, didn't figure that was to bad for the Doo.

 

[BETHEVIPER]

It would be nice if they would stop trying to see how many extra bolts and gussets they can use to hold something together. This alone will drop weight. put the tank under the seat and put the exhaust out the side, it would make a lighter seat, tunnel and exhaust and get rid of the ice burgs falling out the back.

Please sell the sled with a 6.5 wide version of a Kimpex Arrow ski and go from having bad skis to having the best in the buisness.

Please fire whoever does your shock valving, I'm not kidding, how can you pay someone to do a job that poorly for that long. Shock valving should not be a Goverment job, fire those people. You have consistantly every year put sleds out that are not valved and or sprung correctly. Your people suck at this, hire someone else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please, will you make a headlight that the low and high beam are not so close together. While your at it, make it electricly adjustable like my old viper was, that was a great feature, why not be the first to offer this( second after me).

dido on the tank size, 12 gallons, minimum.

 

[kinger]

Just playing devils advocate but I cant understand why you want a factory 180-200 hp sled, the apex is already the fastest even faster then the cat, what else do you want?

Why do you want to lighten up a trail sled? I have put mine in the trees and never broke a thing, when stripped the chassis weighs at most 60lbs, how much lighter are you willing to go with say another 30hp like what your asking?

Yamaha patented the rear exit exhaust to limit options for the competition why do it different now?

Shock valving I'm with you there who ever does that is either the opposite in my build or a idiot never seen such poor performance out of the box. This is a cheap no cost option at manufacturing

Skis, its impossibly hard to invent anything different have you seen the patent list on these things? Partnering with a company is a different story but if the design you want is a small company will they keep up, will yamaha delays happen because of it? Say you bent a ski at the beginning of the season would you wait till the end because they cant keep up? If you wanted to buy the rights is it worth it to tool up and change? Yamaha doesn't sell sleds based on skis. Make me mad yes make sense?...even as bad as I want skis it doesn't make sense

Sorry guys I'm just a manurfacturing engineer I know the cost of tooling vs the marketing and sales return value. Its not a matter of not listening its a matter of spend vs return. Guys like knapp leave then come back. I have seen so many guys go from then too yamaha again.

I'm not affiliated with yamaha I could care less... I just have seen some of the reasons why things were not added in industry based on customer demand and hope to help explain it. We can all wish but if you think Doo has a better sled go get it, yamaha doesn't have to do anything to keep sales going strong and survive the recession vs taking big risks and losing money and abandoning us all.

 

[BETHEVIPER]

This statement says it all, "Yamaha doesn't sell sleds based on skis". Never has it been said so well.

Instead, they sell a sled with skis people remove and install other manufacturers ski on(skidoo) I think skidoo is profitable only because of their sales of helmets and skis to yamaha riders.

It is comical and embarasing, all winter long, everwhere you look are newer yamahas with polaris, skidoo and aftermarket skis on them. I have never, ever seen a yamaha ski on a polaris or skidoo.

 

[SledFreak]

It would be nice if they would stop trying to see how many extra bolts and gussets they can use to hold something together. This alone will drop weight. put the tank under the seat and put the exhaust out the side, it would make a lighter seat, tunnel and exhaust and get rid of the ice burgs falling out the back.

Please sell the sled with a 6.5 wide version of a Kimpex Arrow ski and go from having bad skis to having the best in the buisness.

Please fire whoever does your shock valving, I'm not kidding, how can you pay someone to do a job that poorly for that long. Shock valving should not be a Goverment job, fire those people. You have consistantly every year put sleds out that are not valved and or sprung correctly. Your people suck at this, hire someone else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please, will you make a headlight that the low and high beam are not so close together. While your at it, make it electricly adjustable like my old viper was, that was a great feature, why not be the first to offer this( second after me).

dido on the tank size, 12 gallons, minimum.

Diddo Dude, I agree 100 percent with what you have said. You know back in the 90's I stuck with ski-doo for so long, because of their motors, but the chassis were never really that great for handling and ride. They were always fast and pretty reliable back then (rotary valve twin). Then, they started to build an awesome sled with the start of the ZX chassis and then they have evolved to what they have today. Now their motors suck. Yamaha seems to be in the same boat as to what ski-doo had in the 90's. Yamaha's motors are just awesome. Nobody really seems to be in the same league as them for motors, but their chassis really need to be re-engineered. I agree with BETHEVIPER. The shock guy for Yamaha should be fired, because he/she sucks. They have probbaly the best shocks in the business, but with the valving and spring combos they use, it's like they have shocks and valving from a pair of 3 cent shocks. Every one of their sled seems to be the same. We as consumers are just spending way to much money on try to fix their mistakes. How many people had to change out the sway bar, just to help try to make it corner without high siding? Many people.. What's up with that? I don't believe I even hear that on any of the other forums from any other people that ride different brands.

I'm up to 750.00 U.S. to re-valve and respring my 09 Nytro XTX because of there incompetencies. I know not everybody falls within their range/specs for shocks and springs, but the light guys like me (165), should not have to be doing this at all. If you are over 250, then yes I can see changes beig required. This is rediculous... I could be buying bolt on hp parts/clutching stuff for this, but no, I have to fix this first..

As I said before I love the rear exhaust, but their are way to many negatives to having it their compared to having it out front. If they moved it, they could have a bigger gas tank, the chassis could be lighter, reduce the ice build up by a huge amount, and more storage in the back. I have never seen ice build up like that in my life on any sled. It''s completely stupid..

Skis... As far as the skis are concerned, yes there are alternatives. But, to be honest, I think Yamaha could do stuff with their existing skis/mounts, like having the rubber stops built properly so that we don't have to shim the bottom of the skis. This really helps reduce the amount darting.

I'm not really to worried about the hp numbers of these motors, because they always seem to outrun the higher hp sleds. They are that good...

 

[SledFreak]

It would be nice if they would stop trying to see how many extra bolts and gussets they can use to hold something together. This alone will drop weight. put the tank under the seat and put the exhaust out the side, it would make a lighter seat, tunnel and exhaust and get rid of the ice burgs falling out the back.

Please sell the sled with a 6.5 wide version of a Kimpex Arrow ski and go from having bad skis to having the best in the buisness.

Please fire whoever does your shock valving, I'm not kidding, how can you pay someone to do a job that poorly for that long. Shock valving should not be a Goverment job, fire those people. You have consistantly every year put sleds out that are not valved and or sprung correctly. Your people suck at this, hire someone else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please, will you make a headlight that the low and high beam are not so close together. While your at it, make it electricly adjustable like my old viper was, that was a great feature, why not be the first to offer this( second after me).

dido on the tank size, 12 gallons, minimum.

 

[bottlerocket]

I'm still trying to swallow the I want it lighter but add power steering. Maybe they could loose 30hp, put a single throttle body on it and swiss cheese the chassis and be like the xp.

 

[Superman]

I'm still trying to swallow the I want it lighter but add power steering. Maybe they could loose 30hp, put a single throttle body on it and swiss cheese the chassis and be like the xp.

Doh! Now that's funny.