2014

[RoyalBlue]

Remember When

The new sled is 1000000 % a procross with Yamaha clutches and a Yamaha motor. The sled will be called viper. It will be sold at Yamaha and cat dealers. It has cat and Yamaha badges.

Sad if true, but i have a bad feeling that you are correct with this statement. One question still remains though....will it be manufactured in TRF or Japan????

I'd be willing to guess TRF since it's probably cheaper. I don't believe the employees are even union up there so I'm guessing it's cheap labor, plus AC doesn't spend resources on things like a Quality Control department so it cuts even more.

If it is co-branded and sold in both dealer channels I would expect it to be a flop. That's like buying a new Chevy pickup with a Ford engine and tranny in it with both logos on the vehicle and sold at Ford and Chevy dealers.

So what happens with the rest of the Yamaha line-up? BNG until eventual phase-out? When will Yamaha be phasing out the entire snowmobile division? A co-branded product sure says to me... This is a temporary solution... We're just about done.

Oh well I'm glad I got a new "real" Yamaha this year. You might want to snap up a 2013 "Built in Japan" Yamaha before you can't.

The Big 3 has been doing this for years , Mazda & Ford built the Probe a big flop , GM & Opel another big flop , GM & Saab big flop , GM & Holden built the new GTO another flop , lets not forget the NUMI plant in Cali either , another turd in the punchbowl.

I am hoping Black Tragic ramps back up for some really cool stuff that you can use as a boat anchor when it ruins the motor in your sled.

 

[bottlerocket]

Sit down trail sled to replace Phazer 85-100 hp light weight 24 mpg, priced at 8350 anything else just a waste of time.

Nytro??? Why build a new one? The people who want a 4 stroke ditch banger that you can only ride a few miles cause your frozen and the gas tanks too small are happy with it. Sled sells in small numbers so why bother.

Apex hold its own against all but the Cat Turbo.
vector still the quickest 600 class and best over all combo in that class, though the 600 Etec is mighty nice ride.

What's missing in their line up? Nothing but the most important segment cheaper,lighter, better suspended sled for trails then Phazer. Doo 500 SS sells big time last few years ditto the new Indy. Yamaha has nothing in the segment whatsoever.

Im speechless!

 

[De250r]

Yamaha corp had 291 million dollars in free cash flow at the end of the fiscal year. Arctic cats whole shareholder equity is only 179 million. I think yamaha can afford to do its own r&d and since it has stated it recommitted to the North American market and regaining market share I believe it will be yamaha blue clear through. Maybe a cat design thrown in here and there. Yamaha could reach in its pocket and pretty much buy cat.

 

[RoyalBlue]

paint

Maybe rename this joint "The Blue Cat Inn" a TRF Landmark , were this deal was inked on a wet napkin.

 

[7 skulls]

Yamaha corp had 291 million dollars in free cash flow at the end of the fiscal year. Arctic cats whole shareholder equity is only 179 million. I think yamaha can afford to do its own r&d and since it has stated it recommitted to the North American market and regaining market share I believe it will be yamaha blue clear through. Maybe a cat design thrown in here and there. Yamaha could reach in its pocket and pretty much buy cat.

Only 179 million. Yamahas budget to run its Moto GP team in 2011 was 300 million dollars. On a side not, that buys 336lbs and 260hp (hp dependant on fuel capacity). Yamaha could probably clean under the couch cushions at its corporate headquarters and come up with enough to buy control of cat.

 

[yamajammer76]

Yamaha corp had 291 million dollars in free cash flow at the end of the fiscal year. Arctic cats whole shareholder equity is only 179 million. I think yamaha can afford to do its own r&d and since it has stated it recommitted to the North American market and regaining market share I believe it will be yamaha blue clear through. Maybe a cat design thrown in here and there. Yamaha could reach in its pocket and pretty much buy cat.

Well maybe Cat will end up needing a little financial help from Yamaha in the future. $179 million can go fast when people start claiming the lemon law on your products like some are starting to do on 1100 Turbos.

 

[morrisond]

Did anyone else notice the "Rumors. Speculation. Gossip." ad change?

It used to say something about an "industry first" and now "we'll have something big to announce"

They just remembered that built an Hydraulic sled back in the 70's so when they introduce there HST model on the 20th it won't be an Industry first anymore....

Although that really does sound like a partnership with Cat.

 

[low slung]

People are starting to notice the last few years of the arctic cat sleds that buyers are finding out many of the sleds parts are not locally made but made in china(bearings,intercoolers,etc).American assembled,not american made.

 

[rindtj]

Cat rumors have traction, but why would CR say blue is true for 2014, especially if it is literally a rebadge?

 

[talldude1]

People are starting to notice the last few years of the arctic cat sleds that buyers are finding out many of the sleds parts are not locally made but made in china(bearings,intercoolers,etc).American assembled,not american made.

Yup, you are correct. Sad. lots of cheap chinese parts in A/C and Polaris sleds and it shows. It really will be a sad day if yamaha re-badges the cat. i have been working on sleds for many years and the Yamaha quality is light years better than Cat/Polaris

 

[RTYsxv]

But as you pointed out earlier none of the arctic cat forums mention a yamicat type sled coming.Arctic chat.com/Arctic cat insider are pretty much in the know with all things cat.

I know! I've been kind of obsessing over the release the closer we get and they aren't speculating much on the Arctic Cat side. But, most Cat riders want a 600cc 2-stroke so they don't care what Yamaha is doing. Go to some mountain forums and nobody really cares what Yamaha is doing. Heck, the Iron Dog race facebook page has more likes than Yamaha's snowmobile page.

Maybe Cat lets Yamaha use their chassis in exchange for emission credits so Cat can continue to sell 2-strokes that the majority of the market wants. They wouldn't be in competition with one another in that arrangement. Cat wouldn't need engines until the 2015 models so maybe that's why things are quiet on the Cat side?

Yamaha has owned the four-stroke mountain segment the past ten years(since the RX-1 mountain).Ski-doo was the next step but drawed in there horns on a summit 1200 after poor dealer response.Cats turbo 1100 mountain is gaining some more traction than ski-doos attempt but its no-where near yamahas popularity with the boosted/blown mountain four-stroke crowd.If history repeats its self with past yamaha release off groundbreaking stuff(SX700,RX-1)you will see a mountain version also on feb 20 dispite what they say on sno-west.

You mention Yamaha owning the 4-stroke mountain segment....but it doesn't really seem to be a 2 stroke/4 stroke distinction...it's all about how the sled performs.
I've been doing a lot of research on mountain sled options lately. I wanted so badly to find out that a Nytro MTX with some mods will handle technical stuff like the 2 strokes - but it's just not the case, and it's frustrating because I love the short track Nytro and Apex I've owned. But you buy a Nytro MTX, put on $5000 worth of suspension (Tsled skid, zbros front, track), and then have a sled that will maybe hang with a bone stock Summit XM, Pro-RMK or Proclimb. Adding boost is another $5000. Then the real kicker is that it's not worth even $10,000 if you go to resell it - look at all the cheap mod Nytros flooding the classifieds on Snowest. Yamaha looks pretty dead in the mountain segment except for a small niche market. You hear mountain riders talk about "the three" snowmobile manufacturers - they don't even acknowledge Yamaha. The other three are making some amazing sleds these days, and they are not junk.
Sorry for a bit of a rant. I'm hoping for the best on Wednesday - I'm just frustrated with how things have been.

 

[yamajammer76]

People are starting to notice the last few years of the arctic cat sleds that buyers are finding out many of the sleds parts are not locally made but made in china(bearings,intercoolers,etc).American assembled,not american made.

The thing you have to realize about Cat is they are a tiny company compared to the rest in the power sports industry. They have to keep a very high margin on their products to remain profitable considering they survive on snowmobiles, ATVs and side-by-sides and they are far from marketshare leaders in any of those areas. In order to maintain that high margin they must source from the lowest bidder. They had a couple years of losses during the recession and before the ProCross of 2012, but have been pretty profitable for their size over the last couple of years. Of course in the case of the ProCross everything that glitters is not gold and my guess is they are down in sales for 2013. Go take a look over on the HCS forums and you will see there are A LOT of unhappy Cat owners. In fact there are even some trying to dump their belt eating lemons off... for guess what? An Apex!

With all of that said Arctic Cat really does need a partner going forward. One huge product issue or another deep recession could knock them right out. Now I have never ridden a ProCross, but from everything I hear it is an excellent chassis, but has quality control issues and engineering problems with regards to the entire drive system.

Now just imagine when Cat starts building their own engines in-house? SOS

 

[cjjeeper]

Industry first

So I guess the industry first is....

The first time a manufacturer announces a joint venture and the other company doesn't show up or even know about it.

Cat is not involved.

 

[yamajammer76]

Re: Industry first

So I guess the industry first is....

The first time a manufacturer announces a joint venture and the other company doesn't show up or even know about it.

Cat is not involved.

Well I hope your right, but if they are involved hopefully they will leave their Chinese clutches off the Yamaha.

 

[agriffinjd]

If the new sled is a Pro-cross with a Nytro engine I'll be stoked. I couldn't care less where the sled is build, don't give a damn whether the factory is clean or dirty, if it is filled with rednecks wearing sweatpants or Japanese wearing tidy uniforms. All I care about is performance. Cat delivers that. A Cat chassis with a Yamaha motor will be very impressive. I'd have a lot more faith in that sled working well than something new from the ground up pure Yamaha design.

I think there are going to be some disappointed people on the 20th. The speculation and hype is way out of hand.

The reason we buy yamaha is because of the quality. everything is straight, true, precision, and everything fits. and the sled does not fall apart in 2000 miles like cat and polaris. Cats are Junk, the same can not be said for products rolling out of TRF. If we get a re-badged Cat i cant imagine how crooked the yamaha engine will be coming off the production line. oh and drop a few bolts down in the bellypan during assembly and just leave them there.

you will have more faith in an arctic cat working than a yamaha??? wow, what are you smoking....

Do you feel the rebadged 120 a piece of junk? Yamaha has their name on that and I've not read about people complaining about the quality or how it performs. The Procross belt issues can be fixed, it isn't rocket science. My buddies who own Cats aren't blowing belts left and right. There are three teams running 1100's in the Iron Dog right now. Hard to believe they are that big of a POS to survive that race.

I suspect some type of pics will be leaked in the next day or two. It's going to be very difficult hiding the sleds in a hotel ballroom in this day and age of camera phones. I'm amazed nothing yet has popped up.

Just to point out the rather funny irony...but yesterday when I was clicking through the status of the teams in the Iron Dog...2 of the 3 arctic cat teams where laid up with "working on sled" in their status!