2014

[yamajammer76]

Yes, the rebadged 120 is a piece of junk. I work at a large ski resort and they have 20 of them on a kids snowmobile track (2012 z120's -same sled as 2013srx). I work on them. they break constantly. the first week all the headlight screws fell out of every one. 75% of the centrifugal clutches failed within the first 4 weeks.....the bushings failed and the clutch would self destruct and end up in pieces in the bellypan. i am not kidding here. This is just the beginning. the starter rope runs through a plastic console with no metal guide....gee thats smart. there are huge slots cut in the plastic from rope rubbing, and then it cuts and breaks the rope eventually. Just typical Junk quality from arctic cat, no surprises really. I choose not to spend my hard earned money on that type of quality (lack of)

I am hoping and praying that the re-badge does NOT carry over to their full size sleds.

You know speaking of the re-badged 120... The Sno Scoot was 10 times the kids sled that those little 120's are. Yamaha could have just started making Sno Scoots again and there would have been a lot of happy people.

 

[AKrider]

For the sake of the discussion regarding the Cat rumor, why do some of you think Yamaha would drop all their existing models? Why would things be any different from when Kawasaki and Suzuki worked together on MX bikes and shared a few co-branded models. They still kept some models exclusively to themselves. Besides, co-branding works. If you don't think so, give your head a shake. Ever looked at a GMC and a Chevy truck? OMG, they are the same thing! Suzuki and GM sold the same small SUV's, Mazda and Ford sold the same small pick-up. Who gives a poop what name is on the side if the dang thing performs and you can buy it from the dealer you like?

All the secrecy actually makes more sense to me if they are releasing a Pro-cross Yamaha. There will be an uproar among the brand loyal, Yamaha diehards and they are going to want control how the message is delivered. They wouldn't even be able to show the tip of the ski because it would be obvious the new sled is a Cat. In any case, Yamaha is firmly #4 in sales and has been for years. They need to do something to gain more and younger buyers.

Big reason I'd be more comfortable with a Pro-cross Yamaha is because the chassis is known to work, it handles, rides well and the clutching issues can be dealt with. A brand new, never been race tested Yamaha chassis would have me nervous as NOTHING that Yamaha has released in since they went 4-stroke has been without some type of issue. Wait, I take that back, the '05 Vector was pretty decent, of course that was just a different motor in a chassis going into its 4th production year. Guess that proves my point, they'd be better off going with what is known to work.

As far as what would Cat get out of the deal, umm..... motors! I can see Cat building their own 2-strokes but not a high performance 4-stroke. With sled sales as low as they are currently and EPA regs making new motors very expensive to manufacture and certify, it only makes sense for them to work together. I don't think Yamaha gets the return on investment they need to justify building their own sled when they sell so few machines.

 

[yamajammer76]

For the sake of the discussion regarding the Cat rumor, why do some of you think Yamaha would drop all their existing models? Why would things be any different from when Kawasaki and Suzuki worked together on MX bikes and shared a few co-branded models. They still kept some models exclusively to themselves. Besides, co-branding works. If you don't think so, give your head a shake. Ever looked at a GMC and a Chevy truck? OMG, they are the same thing! Suzuki and GM sold the same small SUV's, Mazda and Ford sold the same small pick-up. Who gives a poop what name is on the side if the dang thing performs and you can buy it from the dealer you like?

All the secrecy actually makes more sense to me if they are releasing a Pro-cross Yamaha. There will be an uproar among the brand loyal, Yamaha diehards and they are going to want control how the message is delivered. They wouldn't even be able to show the tip of the ski because it would be obvious the new sled is a Cat. In any case, Yamaha is firmly #4 in sales and has been for years. They need to do something to gain more and younger buyers.

Big reason I'd be more comfortable with a Pro-cross Yamaha is because the chassis is known to work, it handles, rides well and the clutching issues can be dealt with. A brand new, never been race tested Yamaha chassis would have me nervous as NOTHING that Yamaha has released in since they went 4-stroke has been without some type of issue. Wait, I take that back, the '05 Vector was pretty decent, of course that was just a different motor in a chassis going into its 4th production year. Guess that proves my point, they'd be better off going with what is known to work.

As far as what would Cat get out of the deal, umm..... motors! I can see Cat building their own 2-strokes but not a high performance 4-stroke. With sled sales as low as they are currently and EPA regs making new motors very expensive to manufacture and certify, it only makes sense for them to work together. I don't think Yamaha gets the return on investment they need to justify building their own sled when they sell so few machines.

Well I would assume that this new sled (we'll call it Viper) will probably replace the Nytro. I also heard there is a rumored Venom. Maybe that is a Phazer replacement? So I guess that leaves Yamaha building the Deltabox II (Apex, Vector, Venture) and work sleds. I guess it would get them back to making just one platform on their own which possibly they can afford to update and still make a profit on it.

Some would say that the DII sleds will no longer be popular if a new re-badged Arctic Cat is available, but I bet you would be surprised how many trail riders would still buy the DII sleds with EPS and true Yamaha build quality.

The biggest problem they are going to have if this is a re-badged ProCross is to convince people they are committed to the snowmobile business and won't leave customers high and dry in a couple of years.

As far as what Arctic Cat gets out of the deal? Well they have stated over and over again they are 100% committed to attempting to build their own engines. I'm not sure if that means just 2 stroke or both 2 and 4. If they attempt to build their own 4-stroke to compete against the re-badged Yamaha I don't expect it would do well. Anyone who wanted a 4-stroke is going to buy the Yamaha unless their glasses are so green they can't see straight.

 

[low slung]

For the sake of the discussion regarding the Cat rumor, why do some of you think Yamaha would drop all their existing models? Why would things be any different from when Kawasaki and Suzuki worked together on MX bikes and shared a few co-branded models. They still kept some models exclusively to themselves. Besides, co-branding works. If you don't think so, give your head a shake. Ever looked at a GMC and a Chevy truck? OMG, they are the same thing! Suzuki and GM sold the same small SUV's, Mazda and Ford sold the same small pick-up. Who gives a poop what name is on the side if the dang thing performs and you can buy it from the dealer you like?

All the secrecy actually makes more sense to me if they are releasing a Pro-cross Yamaha. There will be an uproar among the brand loyal, Yamaha diehards and they are going to want control how the message is delivered. They wouldn't even be able to show the tip of the ski because it would be obvious the new sled is a Cat. In any case, Yamaha is firmly #4 in sales and has been for years. They need to do something to gain more and younger buyers.

Big reason I'd be more comfortable with a Pro-cross Yamaha is because the chassis is known to work, it handles, rides well and the clutching issues can be dealt with. A brand new, never been race tested Yamaha chassis would have me nervous as NOTHING that Yamaha has released in since they went 4-stroke has been without some type of issue. Wait, I take that back, the '05 Vector was pretty decent, of course that was just a different motor in a chassis going into its 4th production year. Guess that proves my point, they'd be better off going with what is known to work.

As far as what would Cat get out of the deal, umm..... motors! I can see Cat building their own 2-strokes but not a high performance 4-stroke. With sled sales as low as they are currently and EPA regs making new motors very expensive to manufacture and certify, it only makes sense for them to work together. I don't think Yamaha gets the return on investment they need to justify building their own sled when they sell so few machines.

But as you pointed out earlier none of the arctic cat forums mention a yamicat type sled coming.Arctic chat.com/Arctic cat insider are pretty much in the know with all things cat.

 

[sledneck22]

Based on the marketing scheme so far, I have to believe they are releasing a Viper Venom or similar named sled. This makes me believe, whatever it is, will be genuine Yamaha with that model branding. Now if their marketing lingo was saying "Only 2 more days until the Cat's out of the bag" It would lead me to speculate otherwise.
But I remember seeing somewhere that yamaha bought/continued payment for the trademarks for Viper and Venom back in '12 or '11 per the patent agengcy. With no other name trademarked yet, what else could it be?????

 

[timebomb]

SR Viper, a radical front suspension kinda like what Polaris did with the rear suspension. Tweaked and refined Nytro engine with a few more ponies. Industry first would be a new front suspension design. SRX 120 is as far as Yamaha goes with Cat.

 

[AKrider]

But as you pointed out earlier none of the arctic cat forums mention a yamicat type sled coming.Arctic chat.com/Arctic cat insider are pretty much in the know with all things cat.

I know! I've been kind of obsessing over the release the closer we get and they aren't speculating much on the Arctic Cat side. But, most Cat riders want a 600cc 2-stroke so they don't care what Yamaha is doing. Go to some mountain forums and nobody really cares what Yamaha is doing. Heck, the Iron Dog race facebook page has more likes than Yamaha's snowmobile page.

Maybe Cat lets Yamaha use their chassis in exchange for emission credits so Cat can continue to sell 2-strokes that the majority of the market wants. They wouldn't be in competition with one another in that arrangement. Cat wouldn't need engines until the 2015 models so maybe that's why things are quiet on the Cat side?

 

[yamajammer76]

So what is this flaming fireball? Oh it's just a 2012 Arctic Cat 1100 Turbo that was just posted on Facebook. Now you can see why I am not wild about the re-badge rumors. By the way... look around and you will see this is not an isolated event. The 1100 Turbo might be fast, but it also appears to be one of the biggest lemons ever built... Now AC wants to build their own engines??? LOL

 

[Irv]

For the sake of the discussion regarding the Cat rumor, why do some of you think Yamaha would drop all their existing models? Why would things be any different from when Kawasaki and Suzuki worked together on MX bikes and shared a few co-branded models. They still kept some models exclusively to themselves. Besides, co-branding works. If you don't think so, give your head a shake. Ever looked at a GMC and a Chevy truck? OMG, they are the same thing! Suzuki and GM sold the same small SUV's, Mazda and Ford sold the same small pick-up. Who gives a poop what name is on the side if the dang thing performs and you can buy it from the dealer you like?

All the secrecy actually makes more sense to me if they are releasing a Pro-cross Yamaha. There will be an uproar among the brand loyal, Yamaha diehards and they are going to want control how the message is delivered. They wouldn't even be able to show the tip of the ski because it would be obvious the new sled is a Cat. In any case, Yamaha is firmly #4 in sales and has been for years. They need to do something to gain more and younger buyers.

Big reason I'd be more comfortable with a Pro-cross Yamaha is because the chassis is known to work, it handles, rides well and the clutching issues can be dealt with. A brand new, never been race tested Yamaha chassis would have me nervous as NOTHING that Yamaha has released in since they went 4-stroke has been without some type of issue. Wait, I take that back, the '05 Vector was pretty decent, of course that was just a different motor in a chassis going into its 4th production year. Guess that proves my point, they'd be better off going with what is known to work.

As far as what would Cat get out of the deal, umm..... motors! I can see Cat building their own 2-strokes but not a high performance 4-stroke. With sled sales as low as they are currently and EPA regs making new motors very expensive to manufacture and certify, it only makes sense for them to work together. I don't think Yamaha gets the return on investment they need to justify building their own sled when they sell so few machines.

The only way I would buy one is if the ENTIRE engine bay was filled with Yamaha products, including Yamaha clutches and drivetrain.

 

[low slung]

But as you pointed out earlier none of the arctic cat forums mention a yamicat type sled coming.Arctic chat.com/Arctic cat insider are pretty much in the know with all things cat.

I know! I've been kind of obsessing over the release the closer we get and they aren't speculating much on the Arctic Cat side. But, most Cat riders want a 600cc 2-stroke so they don't care what Yamaha is doing. Go to some mountain forums and nobody really cares what Yamaha is doing. Heck, the Iron Dog race facebook page has more likes than Yamaha's snowmobile page.

Maybe Cat lets Yamaha use their chassis in exchange for emission credits so Cat can continue to sell 2-strokes that the majority of the market wants. They wouldn't be in competition with one another in that arrangement. Cat wouldn't need engines until the 2015 models so maybe that's why things are quiet on the Cat side?

Yamaha has owned the four-stroke mountain segment the past ten years(since the RX-1 mountain).Ski-doo was the next step but drawed in there horns on a summit 1200 after poor dealer response.Cats turbo 1100 mountain is gaining some more traction than ski-doos attempt but its no-where near yamahas popularity with the boosted/blown mountain four-stroke crowd.If history repeats its self with past yamaha release off groundbreaking stuff(SX700,RX-1)you will see a mountain version also on feb 20 dispite what they say on sno-west.

 

[1nc 2000]

A fourstroke can be made to run backwards. No camshaft, pneumatic operated valves, electronic solenoids open and close valve timing computer controlled, adjust timing, electric oil pump. Formula One technology.! I don't think we will see that much technology in a snowmobile engine. Would be sweet though!

 

[7 skulls]

So what is this flaming fireball? Oh it's just a 2012 Arctic Cat 1100 Turbo that was just posted on Facebook. Now you can see why I am not wild about the re-badge rumors. By the way... look around and you will see this is not an isolated event. The 1100 Turbo might be fast, but it also appears to be one of the biggest lemons ever built... Now AC wants to build their own engines??? LOL

So that was the fireball over Russia!

Sucks though. Expensive barbecue.

 

[srvfan]

Sit down trail sled to replace Phazer 85-100 hp light weight 24 mpg, priced at 8350 anything else just a waste of time.

Nytro??? Why build a new one? The people who want a 4 stroke ditch banger that you can only ride a few miles cause your frozen and the gas tanks too small are happy with it. Sled sells in small numbers so why bother.

Apex hold its own against all but the Cat Turbo.
vector still the quickest 600 class and best over all combo in that class, though the 600 Etec is mighty nice ride.

What's missing in their line up? Nothing but the most important segment cheaper,lighter, better suspended sled for trails then Phazer. Doo 500 SS sells big time last few years ditto the new Indy. Yamaha has nothing in the segment whatsoever.

 

[De250r]

So what is this flaming fireball? Oh it's just a 2012 Arctic Cat 1100 Turbo that was just posted on Facebook. Now you can see why I am not wild about the re-badge rumors. By the way... look around and you will see this is not an isolated event. The 1100 Turbo might be fast, but it also appears to be one of the biggest lemons ever built... Now AC wants to build their own engines??? LOL

So that was the fireball over Russia!

Sucks though. Expensive barbecue.

Ya but maybe owner will get out of the cat with the most money back if it burns to the ground. Any sled will burn. Hope u got full coverage when it happens

 

[greenthumb]

Did anyone else notice the "Rumors. Speculation. Gossip." ad change?

It used to say something about an "industry first" and now "we'll have something big to announce"