Let's keep the EPA out of this all together. We do not want them or any other entity to screw up more than they already have.
2014
- Thread starter ViperTurboPete
- Start date
Meskie,
No offense but your post sounds like an oxymoron. Your sled is quicker off the line for an unspecified distance but he can beat you top end. Yet you still claim you can beat him in a race?
When I rode my buddy's sled, I didn't have enough room to let it run wide open for an extended amount of time. It was crazy how normally huge spaces simply shrunk in size when riding something capable of that kind of speed and power. It was also so weird to be riding a 162 mountain sled with a 2.6" deep track and punch the throttle at 30 mph and have it lift and carry the skis for 100's of feet. I can see how guys can get addicted to that kind of power!
We were talking after the ride and compared the 1100T to Yamaha's current efforts. You end up money ahead buying a Cat turbo because an MTX is $12,900 list and then add $4000 for a turbo and another $1000 or so for dealer installation to keep your warranty and it rapidly becomes apparent why Cat is more popular. Its just a better value. Then on top of everything else you have to figure in the fact that the Cat handles so much better, box stock than a Nytro. If you want to build a competitive Yamaha you also have to budget for a different front end, relocate the steering post, add a bigger tank, buy a skid plate to prevent the side panels from crushing in and hitting the clutch and creating a hole, plus other odds and ends. I'm not writing this stuff to be a hater. Yamaha just needs to wake up and improve their sleds! Its been 5 seasons since they released anything new. I don't know what they are waiting for?
If you are a die hard, brand loyal, blue cool aid drinking Yamaha guy, whatever you do, for sure do not ride another brand! You are going to be pissed that you've wasted X number of seasons and years of your life missing out on better things. The only segment that does not apply to are the high mileage, super highway, groomed trail riders. You guys are already riding the best sled made. There is a lot to be said for a sled engine that can go for what, 50,000 miles? I just want that kind of engine reliability in a chassis that is light and handles! If all Yamaha reads on these forums is "heavy means reliability" nothing will ever change. People will continue to leave for other brands and Yamaha dealers will continue to go out of business.
No offense but your post sounds like an oxymoron. Your sled is quicker off the line for an unspecified distance but he can beat you top end. Yet you still claim you can beat him in a race?
When I rode my buddy's sled, I didn't have enough room to let it run wide open for an extended amount of time. It was crazy how normally huge spaces simply shrunk in size when riding something capable of that kind of speed and power. It was also so weird to be riding a 162 mountain sled with a 2.6" deep track and punch the throttle at 30 mph and have it lift and carry the skis for 100's of feet. I can see how guys can get addicted to that kind of power!
We were talking after the ride and compared the 1100T to Yamaha's current efforts. You end up money ahead buying a Cat turbo because an MTX is $12,900 list and then add $4000 for a turbo and another $1000 or so for dealer installation to keep your warranty and it rapidly becomes apparent why Cat is more popular. Its just a better value. Then on top of everything else you have to figure in the fact that the Cat handles so much better, box stock than a Nytro. If you want to build a competitive Yamaha you also have to budget for a different front end, relocate the steering post, add a bigger tank, buy a skid plate to prevent the side panels from crushing in and hitting the clutch and creating a hole, plus other odds and ends. I'm not writing this stuff to be a hater. Yamaha just needs to wake up and improve their sleds! Its been 5 seasons since they released anything new. I don't know what they are waiting for?
If you are a die hard, brand loyal, blue cool aid drinking Yamaha guy, whatever you do, for sure do not ride another brand! You are going to be pissed that you've wasted X number of seasons and years of your life missing out on better things. The only segment that does not apply to are the high mileage, super highway, groomed trail riders. You guys are already riding the best sled made. There is a lot to be said for a sled engine that can go for what, 50,000 miles? I just want that kind of engine reliability in a chassis that is light and handles! If all Yamaha reads on these forums is "heavy means reliability" nothing will ever change. People will continue to leave for other brands and Yamaha dealers will continue to go out of business.
northernsledder.jk said:
We wouldn't have 4-stroke sleds if not for the EPA. From what I understand they backed off their regs and went to a fleet average after '12. If they had kept going the route they were on, 2-strokes, even the eTech, would have eventually been a thing of the past simply because a 2-stroke has to burn oil and some goes out the exhaust pipe. We'd be on track to have huge leaps in bounds in development of 4-strokes that would eventually eclipse the light weight handling advantage of today's 2-strokes.
Those dirty two-strokes maybe around for a while yet.One thing that might hurt the bi-polar sled makers is the MPG average(one poster on dootalk claims this is why ski-doo will not tune more power out of the 1200).Yamaha will no doubt have something major,but im starting to think that doo/poo/and even cat will only have BNG for 2014.AKrider said:
I think any of the 4-strokes from Cat,Doo and Yamaha can and will last up to 50,000 miles. It is just that Yamahas 4-strokes have been around much longer and have had a chance to prove themselves. The Cat and Doo four strokes are great engines planted in two very nice chassis.
09nytro
TY 4 Stroke God
Yes I don't think polaris or cat will have anything new but ski doo never sets back so they will have something ..now will yamaha have anything lets hope but I'm thing not..its going to be a PZ xtx.....wow.....lol
If Doo has anything big this year it will be a limited mid season release. They play it smart. Instead of rushing a product to market they do the mid release thing to figure out the flaws. Very smart really.
meskie
Extreme
I'm not a brand loyal kool-aid drinking Yamaha die hard. People were talking how good the cat turbos were. All I was saying is when you compare a cat to a Yamaha turbo. The Yamaha motor is more responsive. As for racing distance we were driving across open fields that were a mile long so I don't know what distance he caught and passed me at. Even against a 240hp chipped cat and I have less money into it than a 1100t cat. If cat would have had the current line up when I bought my Yamaha and if the dealer was closer I would be driving a cat. If the put a turboed nytro motor in a cat chassis I think it would be an awesome sled
Ike
Expert
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2005
- Messages
- 400
- Reaction score
- 38
- Points
- 908
- Location
- Sodankylä, Finnish Lapland
- Country
- Other
- Snowmobile
- Vmax-4 MountainMax 800
Yammie has the best 4-stroke engines out there. They just need a better chassis where to put it.
If they have any sense at the Yammie Iwata headquarters, they know this, and are going to do someting about it in 2014 lineup.
Ike
If they have any sense at the Yammie Iwata headquarters, they know this, and are going to do someting about it in 2014 lineup.
Ike
yamahabandit
Expert
I agree the Nytro motor even w/o a turbo in a Procross type chassis would be my next sled for sure. For the record my Cat ices up pretty bad at the back of the tunnel. Not quite as bad as the Nytro but close.meskie said:
My buddy was telling me they changed that for '13. He doesn't have the heat exchanger at the very back of the tunnel. I recall reading that Cat had a humped tunnel last year and ice was forming between the top of the exchanger and the top of the tunnel. That design caused the top of the tunnel to get bent from what I understand. The '12 Cat 800 that was with us had an aftermarket fix that made the tunnel flat at the back. I didn't check his tunnel for ice.
The thing I like is Cat along with Polaris and Doo acknowledge and address a majority of their problems and improve their sleds year after year. Polaris has made big improvements to their a-arm front end around 4 times in the past 8 years. Ski-doo has continued to improve the XP and now has the best riding skid in the R-motion. If Yamaha would do that they'd really have some great sleds in their existing models. I've never understood why they are so slow to make big and needed improvements? Their engines and clutches are excellent. All they need to focus on is their chassis. They actually have less work cut out for them than the other OEM's.
The thing I like is Cat along with Polaris and Doo acknowledge and address a majority of their problems and improve their sleds year after year. Polaris has made big improvements to their a-arm front end around 4 times in the past 8 years. Ski-doo has continued to improve the XP and now has the best riding skid in the R-motion. If Yamaha would do that they'd really have some great sleds in their existing models. I've never understood why they are so slow to make big and needed improvements? Their engines and clutches are excellent. All they need to focus on is their chassis. They actually have less work cut out for them than the other OEM's.
n.e.mich
Veteran
I love my "BIG HEAVY SLOW" (hahaha) Yamaha that never breaks. Every year I ride it i'm still amazed at how unbelievably reliable it is. That being said, all of my miles are on trails and I have no need for a 160 hp 400 lb machine. I can and do ride my Attak 200-300 miles a day with no issues and I have no need for a Snocross sled that rides like a 4 wheeler. Regular preventative maintenance on a Yamaha 4 stroke is cheap insurance for thousands of worry free miles. 3500 so far and it doesn't use a drop of oil, only on my 2nd set of slides and carbides. Haven't needed to replace the original belt yet!
dilligaf
Pro
jp111 said:
I hear you. Sorry if I came across wrong. This is going to drop resale values big time.
There are about 200 people who work on sleds designs for yamaha in japan.And i bet like Honda,there are moved around the company to work on other projects(ATVs,motorcycles,PWCs,etc).It may seem that yamaha are slow to change but the way they see it, if the powertrain is fine,why bother trying to keep changing the chassis.R&D cost have to be recouperated and that means sticking to a chassis design for a while.Yamaha has the most chassis designs of the big four,but this reflects yamahas intent to make a unique chassis for each HP class.But it hurts them putting all resources into one chassis like the rest.(Why you think cat,poo,doo can update a chassis so quick?) .I recall last season one of the yamaha factory hillclimb racers responding to trashtalk about yamahas effort in the mountain market.He said something about "the competition will be accusing yamaha of bringing guns to a knife fight"when they see whats comingAKrider said:
.
AKrider said:
Its amazing how you can praise the other manufacturers and always find fault in Yamaha in each and every post you post! We get it already you dont like Yamaha! Well there are a lot of people unlike you who do. Your posts all sound like a song thats played to much. Even when cat copied Yamaha and god forbid put a heavy 4 stroke in there sled it was amazingly better riding and handling as if it, how did you say it, oh yea hid its weight come on now. Next your going to tell me how much lighter green 100 lbs is compared to the same weight colored blue! Your glasses are just as green as mine are blue only I am not the one envious. lol
