2020 Release

[Sasquatch]

On another note, asked excell what's coming....no clue, but rumors of 2021 being big for Yamaha, and Polaris!

Yep then it will be 2022 for the big year. and it repeats itself over and over and still nothing.

 

[Sasquatch]

The Apex motor most certainly has a cult following (mostly here on this site), which is not a bad thing. But it's definitely my cup of tea. However, to your point about more or less hp ... If Yamaha made a 150-160hp 4-stroke sled that weighs 100lbs less than the Sidewinder, they would absolutely have my attention. I have no need for a 200hp tank. But Yamaha (nor any other manufacturer for that matter) does not make what one particular person wants. They build what their market research tells them to keeping in mind who their target audience is. I seem to be falling out of that target audience lately.

I don't know waht the target audience is anymore. Some would say its 200 hp turbos but the amount of leftovers for sale make me wonder. Best snow year in a long time and spring only 2019 sales to eliminate inventory that is still there. One search gave me pages and pages of Winders, with way to many leftovers, demos and low mileage sleds. If 2019 was to clear inventory I don't think it worked, market is flooded just like with the Apex a while back. So lake racers and groomed trail riders where not it either as Apex flooded the market. Maybe a cheap 540 fan Enticer is what the market needs.

 

[whitedust1]

Polaris rider select was a disaster over engineered stupid approach to a simple adjustable riser. Some of you are missing why 150 to 160 hp is so popular is because the NA 4 holer is bullet proof and uncomplicated compared to turbo engines. Sure Yamaha can design a new engine that maybe better and I’m open to that. But 130ish to 200hp is a huge market gap throw in eps and its a winner.

 

[srvfan]

apex motor in procross aint happening will never fit. Besides the Pro Cross is woefully outdated compared to Doo and Poo. I don't think we'll see anything new other than a cross over /mountain sled with the alpha rail and maybe a 2 smoke injected. But that will literally be a Cat in drag no yammie 2 smoke engine. Still hoping for a better rear suspension to compete with R-motion and smaller 4 strokes like the 600 and 900 Doo. That is huge sales for Doo and everybody else is just letting them have it. Rumors of a 141 cat alpha rail so probably just a Yammy version of that. Cat is most likely in Turmoil since Textron came in. Takes a couple years just to get management in place and get a plan in place before much of anything happens

 

[SumpBuster]

apex motor in procross aint happening will never fit. Besides the Pro Cross is woefully outdated compared to Doo and Poo. I don't think we'll see anything new other than a cross over /mountain sled with the alpha rail and maybe a 2 smoke injected. But that will literally be a Cat in drag no yammie 2 smoke engine. Still hoping for a better rear suspension to compete with R-motion and smaller 4 strokes like the 600 and 900 Doo. That is huge sales for Doo and everybody else is just letting them have it. Rumors of a 141 cat alpha rail so probably just a Yammy version of that. Cat is most likely in Turmoil since Textron came in. Takes a couple years just to get management in place and get a plan in place before much of anything happens

I guess that's what makes the world go around. I let our local doo guys try the winder and they say it rides great and actually steers. Go figure.

 

[T-Bone]

I don't know waht the target audience is anymore. Some would say its 200 hp turbos but the amount of leftovers for sale make me wonder. Best snow year in a long time and spring only 2019 sales to eliminate inventory that is still there. One search gave me pages and pages of Winders, with way to many leftovers, demos and low mileage sleds. If 2019 was to clear inventory I don't think it worked, market is flooded just like with the Apex a while back. So lake racers and groomed trail riders where not it either as Apex flooded the market. Maybe a cheap 540 fan Enticer is what the market needs.

It's really simple. Yamaha, not AC, needs to make a naturally aspirated Apex (16oish hp 2 or 4 stroke) that weighs about 150 lbs less than the last Apex made, and they will have a complete winner in sales and on the trails. Simple and reliable.

 

[Sasquatch]

So you guys would take a apex motor in pro cross chassis with 170 hp but the Sidewinder at 190 hp is to much. I don't get it but I guess it's just me. I would hands down have the 3cyl 998 with the latest and greatest technology. The Viper is to slow and the Sidewinder is to fast is what I'm getting out of all of this. I don't think your gonna see anything in between it doesn't make any sense to me but to each there own but you guys that are waiting for the 4cyl Apex motor to come back will be waiting for along time.

No I want the 150hp Apex engine in something, I do not want the 998 turbo at 200 plus hp. You are correct though I don't see the Apex motor coming back either and is the reason I don't want to budge off my Apex. Run it till its no more long before I take a 130hp triple.

Now what I see that Yamaha could build is a procross style chassis of their own design without the junk Cat chaincase oil tank setup and the crap driveshaft brake set up. 998 NA making 110 120hp 998 jackshaft supercharged 998 making 150to 160hp and of course their 200plus 998 turbo. 600cc two stroke 130 hp and 800cc 160hp two stroke all in the same chassis.

For that to happen it Yamaha must go it on their own or convince Cat Textron of it. I don't think Cat or Textron would agree, with a all Yamaha engine drivetrain lineup.

Now I know that some will say why supercharge instead of turbo. Reasons are simple, supercharger gives less heat and would not need an intercooler or as large of a one. Its power would be linear and I think more trail freindly with 120 off the line and 140 at cruise speed with 160 on top. It would not spool down like a turbo and coming out of a corner at 30 mile per hour it would be like a viper when on the power winding up to Apex power on top. What can I say it interests me. If I could get the Jackshaft driven super charger for my Apex it would be fantastic. It would be a Yamacharger on steroids!

 

[74Nitro]

I guess that's what makes the world go around. I let our local doo guys try the winder and they say it rides great and actually steers. Go figure.

That's right. The procross is a very good chassis, it doesn't need to be re-invented, just some refinements. I think it is the best front end in the business, or at least a tie with the also very good Polaris front end.
One thing I'm really enjoying is the lack of constant maintenance that the all Yamaha chassis and suspension was famous for. Don't miss changing bushings, and loose or sloppy steering.

 

[Sasquatch]

It's really simple. Yamaha, not AC, needs to make a naturally aspirated Apex (16oish hp 2 or 4 stroke) that weighs about 150 lbs less than the last Apex made, and they will have a complete winner in sales and on the trails. Simple and reliable.

But to make it 150pds less they have to leave out the motor. Seriously though 50 to 75 pds puts in at or under 500pds. 150 get it closer to 400 even the two smokes are more then that. Yamaha has patent for pyramid chassis. That would do it.

 

[74Nitro]

No I want the 150hp Apex engine in something, I do not want the 998 turbo at 200 plus hp. You are correct though I don't see the Apex motor coming back either and is the reason I don't want to budge off my Apex. Run it till its no more long before I take a 130hp triple.

Now what I see that Yamaha could build is a procross style chassis of their own design without the junk Cat chaincase oil tank setup and the crap driveshaft brake set up. 998 NA making 110 120hp 998 jackshaft supercharged 998 making 150to 160hp and of course their 200plus 998 turbo. 600cc two stroke 130 hp and 800cc 160hp two stroke all in the same chassis.

For that to happen it Yamaha must go it on their own or convince Cat Textron of it. I don't think Cat or Textron would agree, with a all Yamaha engine drivetrain lineup.

Now I know that some will say why supercharge instead of turbo. Reasons are simple, supercharger gives less heat and would not need an intercooler or as large of a one. Its power would be linear and I think more trail freindly with 120 off the line and 140 at cruise speed with 160 on top. It would not spool down like a turbo and coming out of a corner at 30 mile per hour it would be like a viper when on the power winding up to Apex power on top. What can I say it interests me. If I could get the Jackshaft driven super charger for my Apex it would be fantastic. It would be a Yamacharger on steroids!

I rode a MPI supercharged Nytro for 2 years before moving to the Winder. The throttle response is just as instant on the Winder at any speed. The only place it would lack a little compared to the supercharger is off the line for a split second. Other than that it is right on par even at 30 mph.

 

[Sasquatch]

If Yamaha & AC had trouble shoe-horning the 1049 cc into the Pro Cross, I suspect that the 4 cylinder Apex motor would be even more problematic. So, while I understand why some of the Apex loyalists may want to see their engine in the Pro Cross chassis, I agree that we won't see it because the Sidewinder already fills the high speed trail sled market.

No you are wrong the Apex engine will fit in the same hole in the same manner the 1049 did. A chassis that is designed to fit any Yamaha engine would lower the center of gravity and as we know that is better. Maybe it more about the motor not the high speed market. Maybe its because the Apex engine is the last best of the Yamaha we once knew. I agree though Yamaha has moved on and the only thing surviving that move is the VK 540. They don't even have a touring sled!

 

[Sasquatch]

apex motor in procross aint happening will never fit. Besides the Pro Cross is woefully outdated compared to Doo and Poo. I don't think we'll see anything new other than a cross over /mountain sled with the alpha rail and maybe a 2 smoke injected. But that will literally be a Cat in drag no yammie 2 smoke engine. Still hoping for a better rear suspension to compete with R-motion and smaller 4 strokes like the 600 and 900 Doo. That is huge sales for Doo and everybody else is just letting them have it. Rumors of a 141 cat alpha rail so probably just a Yammy version of that. Cat is most likely in Turmoil since Textron came in. Takes a couple years just to get management in place and get a plan in place before much of anything happens

Why does everyone think the 998 4 won't fit? Is smaller dimensionaly then the 1049.

 

[Sasquatch]

That's right. The procross is a very good chassis, it doesn't need to be re-invented, just some refinements. I think it is the best front end in the business, or at least a tie with the also very good Polaris front end.
One thing I'm really enjoying is the lack of constant maintenance that the all Yamaha chassis and suspension was famous for. Don't miss changing bushings, and loose or sloppy steering.

Hmmm my 2011 has no issues no maintainace to the front end, or rear, 12,000 miles tight like new. Steering is awesome and even better with the EPS. Maybe you are talking about the 2006 to 2010?

 

[74Nitro]

Hmmm my 2011 has no issues no maintainace to the front end, or rear, 12,000 miles tight like new. Steering is awesome and even better with the EPS. Maybe you are talking about the 2006 to 2010?

Those years were worse for sure.

 

[clarkman]

No you are wrong the Apex engine will fit in the same hole in the same manner the 1049 did. A chassis that is designed to fit any Yamaha engine would lower the center of gravity and as we know that is better. Maybe it more about the motor not the high speed market. Maybe its because the Apex engine is the last best of the Yamaha we once knew. I agree though Yamaha has moved on and the only thing surviving that move is the VK 540. They don't even have a touring sled!

Its not beause its the last. It was an awesome motor. It has great response. Great top end. Sounds great. Reliable. And smooth because more cylinders are always smoother running.
Back in 97 i was told they would never get rid of the 800 4 cylinder. Best motor out there and they will stuff it in the sx chassis. Then 98 brought the srx. Faster and better handling than the 4 would have been. Not as smooth. Not as good sounding and not as reliable. But it brought a lot people to yami than the 4. I believe thats where we could be if yami released a new chassis.