2020 Release

[whitedust1]

Seems to me the Sidewinder, Viper market is saturated with green versions as well. Something new is necessary for both companies. Same old same old won’t help sales of either company. Perfect time for Yamaha to replace the Apex on their own then produce low volumes of Sidewinders and Vipers or replace both with new platforms. BNG will do nothing for market share and they both know it. New is way overdue for both companies

 

[T-Bone]

Costs for new snowmobiles may seem high, especially to those of us who remember buying brand new sleds for $4-5,000 back in the mid-nineties, but you do have to keep the costs in perspective, and it isn't just snowmobiles that have gotten "expensive."

According to NADA a 600cc liquid cooled Indy XLT listed for just over $5,500 in 1996. Today's Viper lists for $12,800. That is a difference of $7,300, or an increase in cost of @ 132% over the 1996 XLT. By the same token, a plain Jane 1996 4wd Chevrolet Pickup truck went for around $15,000 in 1996. Today that base Chevy 4wd pickup lists for over $35,000. That is a difference of $20,000, or an increase in cost of @ 133% over the 1996 Chevy.

The numbers aren't exact, and lord knows that I am not great at math, so feel free to double check, but it looks to me like the costs of snowmobiles have simply kept pace with the costs of other "necessities" (LOL). Granted, back in the mid-nineties, there were entry level sleds that cost significantly less than the XLT (I bought two brand new 500cc fan-cooled Polaris Trails and a trailer for under $10,000 back then). Still, in theory, if you could afford a new sled back in 1996, you should be able to afford a new sled in 2018.

Based on inflation, that $5500 in 1996 is like $8850 today and that $15,000 is $24,100. I bought a 1995 XLT Special and paid $5500 for it. I feel like I could buy a comparable sled today for $8900.

High end sleds are expensive for sure, but I think the problem is that the manufactures drove the consumers towards higher HP/priced sleds and really stopped offering the 500cc class and fan cooled sleds that the beginners were buying. The SnoScoot and Polaris EVO is a start to bringing back lower priced lower performance sleds. we need more options in that class. 600cc class two-stroke sleds are not that expensive if you go with base models without high performance suspensions and shocks which can add up to $2500.

 

[Stormbringer]

That is the ugly truth about this sport. The average family cant afford it. The sport of sledding has become a rich mans sport and that really sucks because its fun and for me its a chance to get away and clear my mind but its getting harder to find the money to go on trips. Sled manufactures need to stop increasing prices because they are pricing a lot of people right out of the sport. Yes I know there are used sleds out there that people can afford but that's not the point. Its only a matter of time before the sport starts to decline sharply because these prices are getting insane. Not to mention the gear. My god that is expensive!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you want a nice jacket and bibs your looking at $800-1000. That's just stupid. Yes the gear is better then ever but damn. Things need to be reset like you said otherwise I see big problems coming.

I have been saying that for years! I used to buy a new sled every year when my family was young. I could not even think of that today! Want to increase market share? Sell the sidewinder for $6,000.00 dollars. They would not be able to keep up with all the orders!

 

[murdered141]

I have been saying that for years! I used to buy a new sled every year when my family was young. I could not even think of that today! Want to increase market share? Sell the sidewinder for $6,000.00 dollars. They would not be able to keep up with all the orders!

Sidewinder costs over $7k to build, cat makes $3k on it, Yamaha another $3k and the dealer gets the rest, and that's why our sled's cost $15k +

 

[soldi]

Back to the 2020 release and a few nuggets of gold out of the TRF camp.

I'll just leave these here.

Obviously a chassis design, a belt drive rather than chain, and a single cylinder roughly 300cc. Hmmm..

Whoever sells this is on to something.. a nice cheap fishing sled.. I'd get one, a deep snow one and a cheap one to get the kids to the lake..

 

[blueironranger]

Sidewinder costs over $7k to build, cat makes $3k on it, Yamaha another $3k and the dealer gets the rest, and that's why our sled's cost $15k +

One really has to wonder the real costs of building a new sled. I'm what many of the "corporate" guys would consider a problem buyer. I've been trained to NOT purchase a sled a release and wait a year to save a huge chunk of money on leftover Sled/ATV along with the usually great financing that accompanies them. By trying to switch to a Spring Order only plan I think they are trying to eliminate the 100's of ME out there that wait to save.

 

[Deeppow16]

One really has to wonder the real costs of building a new sled. I'm what many of the "corporate" guys would consider a problem buyer. I've been trained to NOT purchase a sled a release and wait a year to save a huge chunk of money on leftover Sled/ATV along with the usually great financing that accompanies them. By trying to switch to a Spring Order only plan I think they are trying to eliminate the 100's of ME out there that wait to save.

Your not the problem. Companies have grown money hungry and that's the problem! I just did the same thing back in March. I bought a left over cat for about $4000 off MSRP price from the year before. Why would I buy the same sled six months earlier for $4000 more? If companies can mark sleds off that's much that tells me that they have the prices jacked through the roof for new ones. I work in manufacturing and used to do pricing every day and I can tell you my boss told me we need to have a markup price of at least 150%. They were a very greedy company and it made me sick to see how much profit we got from our buyers and what it cost us to make it. Well I can tell you sled manufactures are doing the same thing.

 

[whitedust1]

One really has to wonder the real costs of building a new sled. I'm what many of the "corporate" guys would consider a problem buyer. I've been trained to NOT purchase a sled a release and wait a year to save a huge chunk of money on leftover Sled/ATV along with the usually great financing that accompanies them. By trying to switch to a Spring Order only plan I think they are trying to eliminate the 100's of ME out there that wait to save.

Exactly Yamaha wants to make money not sell a deeply discounted non current product line. That’s what inventory reduction program is intended to do for both AC and Yamaha. You want a left over better buy now! Yamaha has been very up front about why they are in inventory reduction and their plans to correct the problem.

 

[jjmoneysauce]

Back to the 2020 release and a few nuggets of gold out of the TRF camp.

I'll just leave these here.

Obviously a chassis design, a belt drive rather than chain, and a single cylinder roughly 300cc. Hmmm..

If they make a Bravo 2, I'm set for life.

 

[Wannaviper]

The current and future cost of sleds is undoubtedly relevant to Yamaha's decision about whether to stay in the game, or give it up. Let's face it, we are here because we love snowmobiles and we have fun riding them. Individuals at Corporate Yamaha may, or may not, love snowmobiles, but there is no doubt that they are where they are to make money, not to have fun. If we were in charge of the Yamaha snowmobile division, we probably would be making the best snowmobiles in the world, but the division would also probably be on the verge of bankruptcy. We can speculate all day long about whether Yamaha is going to make our dreams come true, but the truth is that if we are not willing to pay what they want to charge, they are not going to do anything to make us happy; they will just fold up their tent and move on to someplace else where they can make their money.

 

[biffdotorg]

Humor me on this little conspiracy theory. It may or may not be off base.

In that same time, one option is to help promote the best engine buyer (Arctic Cat) by cross branding some sleds, so that they can truly offer a new sled in 2014 that will give the dealers something to sell while they transition. To further this relationship, they work with Arctic Cat to offer a co-designed sled in 2017, which they realize should have been done the first time rather than shoe-horn a current engine into an existing chassis.

This whole time, production of Yamaha designed chassis has all but halted, and the final version is released as spring order only model in for 2019. The writing is now on the wall for the dealers. And yamaha has not lost them for all the other business. If they had stopped back in 2012 or 2014, the dealers may have been overwhelmed by the decision and jumped ship altogether. Now, they may have taken on AC, Polaris or BRP as their sled provider like so many have. Or dropped winter products.

This may be Yamaha's very long way of saying, yup, we maybe should not have gone 100% four stroke back in the early 2000's. But we are not gonna lose our #*$&@ over it. being an engine supplier is the best way to still make money. And they will probably do better than to get back into it again. This also allowed the dealers time to transition slowly. Offering up the AC built sled with Yamaha graphics is a band-aid for those that have not taken on another sled line.

I could very well be wrong. But CR didn't explain his departure other than a much needed retirement. But I bet he saw this coming, and with no new Yamaha designed sleds coming, one can lose their passion for the business side of it. There is literally no business reason for Yamaha to come up with something truly Yamaha. The dealers have to see this as well.

And this just in from Port Yamaha via Facebook as of yesterday, one of the largest "TRUE BLUE" yamaha dealers in the nation:

In 2017, Port Yamaha celebrated 50 years of selling and servicing Yamaha Motorsports products. Being an exclusive Yamaha dealership has allowed us to offer a diverse variety of products, and we truly believe these products are the leaders of quality and reliability in the industry today. Port Yamaha has been a family owned dealer on this journey and Yamaha Motor Corporation has been an extended part of this family. We have an amazing relationship with this great company and their crew. We will always cherish our friends at Yamaha.

2018 begins the next chapter for Port Yamaha. We’ve initiated a new relationship with the makers of Arctic Cat snowmobiles and Textron off-road ATVs and UTVs. Yamaha has been working with Arctic Cat snowmobiles since 2014, affording us hands-on experience over the past five years. Needless to say, we are impressed with Arctic Cat products. We’ve recently spent time in Thief River Falls, Minnesota, touring the Arctic Cat/Textron factory and sharing thoughts and ideas with the top brass; their passion is admirable. We’ve driven the ATVs and UTVs at the factory test facility and at ERX in Elk River, Minnesota. Once again, we were impressed.

With 50 years in the rearview mirror, we look forward to the next 50 with Yamaha, Arctic Cat, and Textron. None of this would, or could, be possible without the dedicated crew at Port Yamaha, our mutually beneficial relationship with Yamaha and other vendors, and you, our amazing customer base. We thank you for the past 50 years of business and look forward to working with you for the next 50. #50strong #yamacat #newchapter #keepermovin #sharethenews #catisoutofthebag

 

[cobrajet ltx dx]

And this just in from Port Yamaha via Facebook as of yesterday, one of the largest "TRUE BLUE" yamaha dealers in the nation:

In 2017, Port Yamaha celebrated 50 years of selling and servicing Yamaha Motorsports products. Being an exclusive Yamaha dealership has allowed us to offer a diverse variety of products, and we truly believe these products are the leaders of quality and reliability in the industry today. Port Yamaha has been a family owned dealer on this journey and Yamaha Motor Corporation has been an extended part of this family. We have an amazing relationship with this great company and their crew. We will always cherish our friends at Yamaha.

2018 begins the next chapter for Port Yamaha. We’ve initiated a new relationship with the makers of Arctic Cat snowmobiles and Textron off-road ATVs and UTVs. Yamaha has been working with Arctic Cat snowmobiles since 2014, affording us hands-on experience over the past five years. Needless to say, we are impressed with Arctic Cat products. We’ve recently spent time in Thief River Falls, Minnesota, touring the Arctic Cat/Textron factory and sharing thoughts and ideas with the top brass; their passion is admirable. We’ve driven the ATVs and UTVs at the factory test facility and at ERX in Elk River, Minnesota. Once again, we were impressed.

With 50 years in the rearview mirror, we look forward to the next 50 with Yamaha, Arctic Cat, and Textron. None of this would, or could, be possible without the dedicated crew at Port Yamaha, our mutually beneficial relationship with Yamaha and other vendors, and you, our amazing customer base. We thank you for the past 50 years of business and look forward to working with you for the next 50. #50strong #yamacat #newchapter #keepermovin #sharethenews #catisoutofthebag

Finally something with substance!!!!

 

[Tarzan]

Uff cat is out of the bag,yamacat new chapter. Ok so no more true blue

 

[Stormbringer]

Y

Exactly Yamaha wants to make money not sell a deeply discounted non current product line. That’s what inventory reduction program is intended to do for both AC and Yamaha. You want a left over better buy now! Yamaha has been very up front about why they are in inventory reduction and their plans to correct the problem.

You are correct! In April I bought a new 2018 sidewinder for 3,000.00 off of sticker with an extra year of warranty and 5 years of 0% financing. Why would you buy spring break or early season sled, outside of some specialty shocks or some other novelty.

 

[cobrajet ltx dx]

With that being said.....
Yamaha needs to to do a huge PR RELEASE during the 19 season, explain to the snowmobile world there future direction, touch upon what to expect on the 2020 launch to get people excited for the end of March snowchecks.
Srx’s are already shipped, overstock units are selling,most are yamicats anyway, true blue accessories are first come first serve until gone.
So in my mind..... enough already!!!!!!