2020 Release

[Deeppow16]

Oh man...…. have you completely nailed the whole issue with todays snowmobiling. I have mentioned this in past threads. I am just getting back into sledding with a used 1997 Vmax but did purchase FXR riding gear and man that was an eye opener. I have resources but can't imagine spending 18+K on a sled, but then again if I lived in mid/northern Ontario I may think differently

Snowmobiling has become a "who can afford the most expensive" very sad to this old timer

Its actually really sad. The wife and I just had our first kid and I'm more excited then ever to have a riding buddy in the future but I'm also very worried for him. If the prices keep increasing whats it going to be like for him when he's my age(24). The only reason I was able to buy a brand new machine back in March was because insurance gave me a lot more for my nytro then I thought they would give me which basically paid for half of the new sled. Otherwise I would still be riding my nytro this year. I'm going to try my best to get the kid into the sport by starting him young. He is the future of the sport.

 

[Wannaviper]

Costs for new snowmobiles may seem high, especially to those of us who remember buying brand new sleds for $4-5,000 back in the mid-nineties, but you do have to keep the costs in perspective, and it isn't just snowmobiles that have gotten "expensive."

According to NADA a 600cc liquid cooled Indy XLT listed for just over $5,500 in 1996. Today's Viper lists for $12,800. That is a difference of $7,300, or an increase in cost of @ 132% over the 1996 XLT. By the same token, a plain Jane 1996 4wd Chevrolet Pickup truck went for around $15,000 in 1996. Today that base Chevy 4wd pickup lists for over $35,000. That is a difference of $20,000, or an increase in cost of @ 133% over the 1996 Chevy.

The numbers aren't exact, and lord knows that I am not great at math, so feel free to double check, but it looks to me like the costs of snowmobiles have simply kept pace with the costs of other "necessities" (LOL). Granted, back in the mid-nineties, there were entry level sleds that cost significantly less than the XLT (I bought two brand new 500cc fan-cooled Polaris Trails and a trailer for under $10,000 back then). Still, in theory, if you could afford a new sled back in 1996, you should be able to afford a new sled in 2018.

 

[Deeppow16]

Costs for new snowmobiles may seem high, especially to those of us who remember buying brand new sleds for $4-5,000 back in the mid-nineties, but you do have to keep the costs in perspective, and it isn't just snowmobiles that have gotten "expensive."

According to NADA a 600cc liquid cooled Indy XLT listed for just over $5,500 in 1996. Today's Viper lists for $12,800. That is a difference of $7,300, or an increase in cost of @ 132% over the 1996 XLT. By the same token, a plain Jane 1996 4wd Chevrolet Pickup truck went for around $15,000 in 1996. Today that base Chevy 4wd pickup lists for over $35,000. That is a difference of $20,000, or an increase in cost of @ 133% over the 1996 Chevy.

The numbers aren't exact, and lord knows that I am not great at math, so feel free to double check, but it looks to me like the costs of snowmobiles have simply kept pace with the costs of other "necessities" (LOL). Granted, back in the mid-nineties, there were entry level sleds that cost significantly less than the XLT (I bought two brand new 500cc fan-cooled Polaris Trails and a trailer for under $10,000 back then). Still, in theory, if you could afford a new sled back in 1996, you should be able to afford a new sled in 2018.

Not necessarily! Wages have not increase at 133% so in turn you might not be able to afford stuff now that you could afford say 10-15 years ago.

 

[northern srx]

^Deeppow16 nailed it^ Agree 100%. Just looking around and seeing firsthand the increase in cost of recerational activities makes me shake my head!!! I am of the same mindset as SSB, in that, I will continue to maintain what I currently have while also saving for a "new to me sled" in the coming years.

 

[Sasquatch]

are we really still comparing these sleds to the fit and finish of a all Yamaha sled.
Those days are over. we now have a great handling chasis with poor quality fit. im on my third yamacat and adjusted very well

That is so sad that one would accept that as the norm.

 

[whitedust1]

Idk what to think reading these cost prohibitive posts? Maybe Yamaha is out in front of the rest of the sled OEMs with inventory reduction and a slim product line. Sometimes it sounds like a shrinking snowmobile market is about to fall off a cliff never to recover. There may only be room for 2 OEMs in a traditional market and others will build only to Spring orders. Sure seems the only way forward for Yamaha at this time.

 

[Sasquatch]

The comments of Yamaha to merge and buy AC are wishful thinking imo Yamaha is NOT interested. Yamaha has an OEM Agreement to have access to the services they want and that is money in Textron’s pocket. Yamaha and AC never used EPS possibility because Yamaha wants to keep that for Yamaha only models. Yamaha will have a new 4s EPS sled for us but maybe Spring only orders.

It is a nice thought but Cat builds and shares the sled with Yamaha. What you are saying is Cat is going to build a sled just for Yamaha? I don't think that will happen, Cats come down the line and motors drop in clutches and body panels is what defines a Cat or a Yamaha. To build a eps sled it will be a different chassis that has to run down the line by itself only for Yamaha, it will have a special harness and different computer software, seems simple but it would be built separately from the rest. Just clutches and body panels complicate the line. We wind up with a special order sled built separately from the rest. Now if eps was shared with Cat then it could happen.

 

[Sasquatch]

As a whole the manufacturers definitely need a reset.The technology in these sleds today are getting so advanced with respect to horsepower and speed that the actual areas that they are used in can’t support it.
There is a fine line.

IMO... I can totally see Yamaha being that niche manufacturer that builds high horsepower/ speed sleds that are mostly used for lake racing, hill drags,
Sanctioned races ect. And those owners will have there kids on the scoot’s playing around with them.

With nothing in-between?

 

[whitedust1]

It is a nice thought but Cat builds and shares the sled with Yamaha. What you are saying is Cat is going to build a sled just for Yamaha? I don't think that will happen, Cats come down the line and motors drop in clutches and body panels is what defines a Cat or a Yamaha. To build a eps sled it will be a different chassis that has to run down the line by itself only for Yamaha, it will have a special harness and different computer software, seems simple but it would be built separately from the rest. Just clutches and body panels complicate the line. We wind up with a special order sled built separately from the rest. Now if eps was shared with Cat then it could happen.

Yep I thought that way too how would TRF be involved? It could happen thru TRF but rumors that Yamaha has been tooling up in Japan is what I heard.

 

[Sasquatch]

Costs for new snowmobiles may seem high, especially to those of us who remember buying brand new sleds for $4-5,000 back in the mid-nineties, but you do have to keep the costs in perspective, and it isn't just snowmobiles that have gotten "expensive."

According to NADA a 600cc liquid cooled Indy XLT listed for just over $5,500 in 1996. Today's Viper lists for $12,800. That is a difference of $7,300, or an increase in cost of @ 132% over the 1996 XLT. By the same token, a plain Jane 1996 4wd Chevrolet Pickup truck went for around $15,000 in 1996. Today that base Chevy 4wd pickup lists for over $35,000. That is a difference of $20,000, or an increase in cost of @ 133% over the 1996 Chevy.

The numbers aren't exact, and lord knows that I am not great at math, so feel free to double check, but it looks to me like the costs of snowmobiles have simply kept pace with the costs of other "necessities" (LOL). Granted, back in the mid-nineties, there were entry level sleds that cost significantly less than the XLT (I bought two brand new 500cc fan-cooled Polaris Trails and a trailer for under $10,000 back then). Still, in theory, if you could afford a new sled back in 1996, you should be able to afford a new sled in 2018.

Its not so much the cost increase as its the total cost of everything and wages have not kept pace. So somewhere you have to cut, sleds now have to compete with the extra money left over after the daily cost of living. I bought a new sled in 78 for 2,400 bucks, a two up crossover type. A new crossover type was is 15,000 bucks. So a 6 times increase I was making 8 bucks an hour then, same job pays 27 bucks not 48. To be fair though the old sled was fan cooled and simple the new much more complex!

Now in 82 I bought a new Honda motorcycle for 5 thousand bucks and was making 10 bucks and hour same job 28 but new Honda is 26,000 grand a 5 times increase.

In 2005 I bought a warrior for 14,500 and wage 27 bucks, in 2011 Apex was 16,400 wage 29. So wages up by 7%, sled up by 12%. In 2014 I retired and now make way less and a new sled is 20,000 or about a 24% increase if I was working I would be at 32 or a 12% more wages are not keeping up. Cost for hydro, gas, food, clothing is increasing at a faster rate then wages as well so where do you cut? Now add in a couple kids all their activity's, feeding and clothing and saving for future schooling.

I wanted a new sled but didn't want a turbo Cat, so instead I took the money and bought a used Yamaha Motorcycle to ride with my wife now that she is retired. I need a new vehicle (or good lightly used) now so I really don't know when I will be flush enough to buy another sled. That is the reality, choices!

 

[Sasquatch]

Idk what to think reading these cost prohibitive posts? Maybe Yamaha is out in front of the rest of the sled OEMs with inventory reduction and a slim product line. Sometimes it sounds like a shrinking snowmobile market is about to fall off a cliff never to recover. There may only be room for 2 OEMs in a traditional market and others will build only to Spring orders. Sure seems the only way forward for Yamaha at this time.

Sounds good but if you only build to spring order, your walk in customers go elsewhere to buy. To be a niche market you have to build a super sled that is top of the line. Yamaha may have the motor that qualifies but not the chassis. To be a niche market sled you have to charge more for it because its cost to build in higher, you wind up with limited money to invest in development and your sled line stagnates unless you charge even higher prices and we know where that spirals to!

 

[Sasquatch]

Yep I thought that way too how would TRF be involved? It could happen thru TRF but rumors that Yamaha has been tooling up in Japan is what I heard.

Oh if I had a dollar for every time someone heard a rumor and if I paid a thousand for each time the rumor was true I'd still be rich. Yamaha does have a patent out on a pyramid frame and I fully believe they could use the 998 in four versions to streamline the lineup while offering a bit of diversity! One chassis 4 sleds is what they need 70, 100, 150, 180plus hp.

 

[Turtle]

Sounds good but if you only build to spring order, your walk in customers go elsewhere to buy. To be a niche market you have to build a super sled that is top of the line. Yamaha may have the motor that qualifies but not the chassis. To be a niche market sled you have to charge more for it because its cost to build in higher, you wind up with limited money to invest in development and your sled line stagnates unless you charge even higher prices and we know where that spirals to!

Isn't that what Blade really tried to do? Niche market for the elite offering a hi-end sled at a hi-end price? That didn't work out so well for them. Yamaha has traditionally been the premium brand sled (of the big 4), has had a premium price and the sled backed up that premium price. But with the sleds they offer now, I don't think they can demand that premium price anymore. And I agree that a spring-order-only business strategy will not work in the long run.

 

[biffdotorg]

Back to the 2020 release and a few nuggets of gold out of the TRF camp.

I'll just leave these here.

Obviously a chassis design, a belt drive rather than chain, and a single cylinder roughly 300cc. Hmmm..

 

[1nc 2000]

Back to the 2020 release and a few nuggets of gold out of the TRF camp.

I'll just leave these here.

Obviously a chassis design, a belt drive rather than chain, and a single cylinder roughly 300cc. Hmmm..

Artic Cat sled.
Firecat 300....