2020 Sidewinder or Tcat?

[mario750]

Not trying to be a dick but I am going to have to call B.S. on this until I see a dealer name.

+1 on that.

 

[Hotrodlincoln75]

Not trying to be a dick but I am going to have to call B.S. on this until I see a dealer name.

Lol. You can do that. I wont name drop as it has bit me before. You'll have to negotiate with your dealer another way.
I've always gotten 10% + or - off new cats during spring order.
I heavily accessorize as well usually 15 - 20 % off. Dont worry, they're making money.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Cat is basically sold already. Got some interesting Q's from my dealer(through REP) that its a done deal, and this is why Cat is doing all they can now. Word is that YAM has bought them. I hope this is true, but things sure make alot more sense now.

This would mean YAM will own Cat sled division(not Textron) and therefore own TRF plant, so maybe now going forward things will start getting better with the issues we see here. Cat will likely be all 2 stroke(Tcat only for 2020) going forward and YAM will take all the 4s. I still am holding out for the 880Yam engine(2s) to come out someday then.

My dealer could have sold me a Tcat cheap too, but he swayed me out of it. I dont see any company being around to cover any warranty work, even though they sure will sell you a warranty. Cat is telling dealers they will take back all old inventory but must decide now or be stuck with leftovers that will not have any rebates. All this speaks volumes to my dealer, and so he thinks that is it for them, and so my dealer will no longer be selling Cats.

We will see what happens....Either way, I hope Cat sticks around in name and hope YAM is the new owner and can bring up the engineering levels, and reduce the warranty claims. We certainly need 4 sled manufacturers! Losing even one will just allow BRP to monopolize things even more then they do now!

Dan

 

[sideshowBob]

What Dan says makes sense, if you look at all the Japanese car companies, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Mazda, ect,ect they all have manufacturing plants in North America. If Yamaha is planning on staying in the sled game they need a manufacturing facility in North America...Cat is the perfect fit.
JM.02c

 

[74Nitro]

Lol. You can do that. I wont name drop as it has bit me before. You'll have to negotiate with your dealer another way.
I've always gotten 10% + or - off new cats during spring order.
I heavily accessorize as well usually 15 - 20 % off. Dont worry, they're making money.

They may be making money, but I don't think they are getting rich.
If anything , I think it's a tough and thankless business.

 

[STAIN]

Cat will likely be all 2 stroke(Tcat only for 2020) going forward and YAM will take all the 4s.

This was my thought when I saw the 2020 line ups from both companies.

 

[STAIN]

Playing devils advocate here
Why would Textron sell to Yamaha? What sense would that make?
Why would they have purchased Arctic Cat, a company that was deep in the red,( Thanks Claude Jordan ) in the first place? For the name? The dealer network? The production facility?
IF they sold to Yamaha, with the production facility, their initial purchase makes no sense. They get nothing.
Would Yamaha build ATV's for Textron off road at that point? Does Textron keep the dirt segment? Why would they have gone back to the Arctic Cat name on the ATV's?
Would Textron bail on Cat after only 2 years? Does Textron believe that there is NO future in the sno-mo biz?
While " Yamaha buys CAT" seems like it could be a good thing, there too many unanswered questions at this point.

If this does happen, I hope Yamaha lets some of the people that made Cat return. Cat has always had passion and good ideas, innovation. Their problem was the ability to bring it to market, quality of materials, quality of manufacturing. They always fought an uphill battle against much bigger and better funded companies. I don't think the other 3 makers had such passionate snowmobile people in the higher ranks.

 

[STAIN]

My friends purchased 3 new Cats this spring from a long time Cat dealer. His biggest frustration seemed to be with Textron's lack of a plan going forward. It seems that they change course all the time and don't have a good line of communication with the dealer network.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Playing devils advocate here
Why would Textron sell to Yamaha? What sense would that make?
Why would they have purchased Arctic Cat, a company that was deep in the red,( Thanks Claude Jordan ) in the first place? For the name? The dealer network? The production facility?
IF they sold to Yamaha, with the production facility, their initial purchase makes no sense. They get nothing.
Would Yamaha build ATV's for Textron off road at that point? Does Textron keep the dirt segment? Why would they have gone back to the Arctic Cat name on the ATV's?
Would Textron bail on Cat after only 2 years? Does Textron believe that there is NO future in the sno-mo biz?
While " Yamaha buys CAT" seems like it could be a good thing, there too many unanswered questions at this point.

If this does happen, I hope Yamaha lets some of the people that made Cat return. Cat has always had passion and good ideas, innovation. Their problem was the ability to bring it to market, quality of materials, quality of manufacturing. They always fought an uphill battle against much bigger and better funded companies. I don't think the other 3 makers had such passionate snowmobile people in the higher ranks.

Yamaha has been trying to buy Cat for several years, all declined. Textron wanted to give the sled division a couple yrs, and now decided to finally take Yamahas offer. Textron does not want to be in the SLED biz....all other vehicles will remain Textron.

This is my understanding, and as I said nothing confirmed but signs seem to be showing.

Dan

 

[whitedust1]

My friends purchased 3 new Cats this spring from a long time Cat dealer. His biggest frustration seemed to be with Textron's lack of a plan going forward. It seems that they change course all the time and don't have a good line of communication with the dealer network.

Terrible PR from both companies of what direction they will take in the near future. Very difficult to get the warm fuzzies regarding their snow divisions. Yamaha has shown little interest in purchasing the Textron snow division and Textron has shown no interest in selling the snow division. Those who say it’s a done deal are way off stock holders have a need to know corporate guidance quarterly. To me it’s a cash cow relationship for both Yamaha and Textron milk it until the poor cow dies. Saying nothing about the future of snow products speaks loudly that there is little to no commitment to snowmobiles. Theses are too large multinational corporations that have much bigger fish to fry than a shrinking snowmobile market. Sad but that’s my speculation at this time until either company makes a commitment to snow products.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Yamaha has shown little interest in purchasing the Textron snow division and Textron has shown no interest in selling the snow division.

Not what I've been told.....My dealer tells me Yamaha has been making offers on Cat for 4 yrs now. And this time they took it.

I hope its true....but noone knows for sure. He has been right in the past.

Dan

 

[cannondale27]

Not what I've been told.....My dealer tells me Yamaha has been making offers on Cat for 4 yrs now. And this time they took it.

I hope its true....but noone knows for sure. He has been right in the past.

Dan

I sure hope so. Also hope they dont screw up whats good about Cat.

 

[KnappAttack]

I would imagine if Yamaha has indeed bought Cat, we'll see it announced officially shortly somewhere.

I don't think the two of them could survive with the path they have been going down. I have it in my head that Yamaha has given up years ago on producing their own chassis, I'd be surprised if they stay in the snow biz other than suppling engines here or there, and IMO there are other engine suppliers out there that are just as good or maybe even better.

 

[whitedust1]

Not what I've been told.....My dealer tells me Yamaha has been making offers on Cat for 4 yrs now. And this time they took it.

I hope its true....but noone knows for sure. He has been right in the past.

Dan

I don’t doubt Yamaha low balled both AC and possibly Textron for the snow division. Really not much value to Yamaha for AC technology. The procross is not selling very well old in the tooth technology needs to retool for something new which is costly no matter who owns the TRF facility. Also Yamaha is an engine manufacturer so no interest in AC 2s engines. Sorry so little value for Yamaha in the AC snow division to make it profitable it seems a stretch that Yamaha would buy it.

 

[whitedust1]

I would imagine if Yamaha has indeed bought Cat, we'll see it announced officially shortly somewhere.

I don't think the two of them could survive with the path they have been going down. I have it in my head that Yamaha has given up years ago on producing their own chassis, I'd be surprised if they stay in the snow biz other than suppling engines here or there, and IMO there are other engine suppliers out there that are just as good or maybe even better.

I totally agree the current path of both Yamaha and Textron is a smoking hole in the ground no future for either of them in this current relationship. Something has to happen soon or the cash cow will die from neglect.