2021 Release?

[sk-rx1]

Odd. Yamaha was always regarded as the technology company. Mostly on engines but also in materials and production methods. Years ago a dealer old me that Yamaha pride would never allow someone elses engines in their products. Snowmobiles and outboards. Outboards still sell very well, they are quality and reliable. But really no new technology. Mercury and Bombardier are gaining sales. As for sleds, yes they built an awesome Sidewinder engine. But that's it. Someone very high up in the company decided this was the way to make the most money. Market share continues to erode, must be the money made per item is enough. Onward..........

 

[mikextx]

Best sled they offer

 

[Vmaxkid]

The executives at Yamaha should either get a bonus from Textron or be fired for their decisions on the 2021 release. Or if the Japanese still believe in employment for life for their employees those Making the decisions in the snowmobile division should report to their new position with their mops and brooms.

 

[Kevin]

I don't get it. There is no perfect snowmobile!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes there have been issues with the Sidewinders
Switching brands isn't going to eliminate having issues.
At least they offer a great, reliable and powerful motor that is the envy of all other brands.
My 17 Winder has 15500kms on it...……………...I'll be signed up for a new one

 

[rbell14]

Actually it does. It's called a Sidewinder and it is by far the highest performing sled money can buy.
If you 'loved' your Viper, you'll be head over heels after experiencing a Winder.

No doubt the sidewinder is a speed demon. I'd like to see Yamaha address issues such as:
- OEM skis that work
- Improved rider ergonomics
- Technology advances such as touch screens with GPS maps installed
- Improved chassis designs - other OEM's continue to improve and evolve their design
- Clutching and belt life improvements
- weight
- etc...

Just haven't seen enough forward thinking as a consumer for the Yamaha product in several years.

 

[jjmoneysauce]

So you only get a 1 year warranty?

Yeah I wonder what the logic is behind that. It is kind of a turnoff.

 

[Kevin]

Yeah I wonder what the logic is behind that. It is kind of a turnoff.

Was hoping that a spring check would get more warranty, but doesn't seem to be that way

 

[rtx moose]

Well yamaha and cat are behind the other 2 in one critical area now,DIGITAL DISPLAYS..They need to get with the times asap.. I know alot of people are actually switching brands to have just GPS alone..This is a change that must happen for yamaha ASAP!!!!

 

[jjmoneysauce]

Was hoping that a spring check would get more warranty, but doesn't seem to be that way

I was starting to hype myself up on the Transporters, and then saw the lack of warranty. That's not amazing. Now, I take any warranty with a grain of salt, but what does a customer read between the lines when a company won't offer anything beyond a 1 year factory warranty on the Cat partnered sleds? And the Japanese (?) sleds all have the longer term YES. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

I am trying to make sense of it all, but I can't escape the fact that I know that Yamaha could do better. Granted there are some new segment offerings here. That's great. But where on earth is their strategy at?

 

[rtx moose]

This should be the 5th year of testing the new chassis they patented back in 2015,so my guess is 2022 will be the year as long as the endurance testing panned out ok!

 

[rtx moose]

OH YEA FORGOT TO SAY,I LOVE MY SIDEWINDER

 

[JMS@Yamaha]

Have the big issues with the sidewinder chassis and driveline been addressed on the new model sleds?
Front heat exchanger to tunnel area coming apart.
Driveshaft bearing spinning on driveshaft.
Chaincase gear bushing issue.
Well you already know about these issues since you read about all the r & d the customers on thos site have to do.

We are constantly working to improve quality. For 2021 we have removed the sight glass from the chain-case and replaced it with a check plug, we have replaced the hose that connects the front and rear heat exchanger with a braided hydraulic hose to prevent any issues with ice contact. The IQS models have been improved with different internal components. We are still working through the chain-case gear and driveshaft at this time.

JMS. Maybe you could comment since you are directly from Yamaha about the lack of quality in the Sidewinder/Viper sleds. It’s obvious you are reading these posts today. Have you been reading them about the issues that most of these members have had with blow off valves freezing, jack shaft bearing slop due to a poorly designed shaft, bolts backing out on the Chaincase tensioner wheel, cheap bearings that fail, suspension components that bend, site glass falling out of the Chaincase, and lets see what other components is it that Barn of Parts makes to fix Arctic Cats engineering issues? Because we darn well know that if Yamaha actually engineered these items there would be far fewer issues with these sleds. Quality, durability, fit and finish and best tech in the business. That’s why I’ve ridden Yamahas for over 25 years. But if you, and I mean you as Yamaha can’t acknowledge these issues and correct them especially when someone spends $15k on a sled these days why would we bother anymore buying Yamaha? As many of the people have said here, might as well buy a Cat, it costs less... or go elsewhere and you will lose the remainder of your market share. Heck, most of the good Yamaha dealers I knew of no longer carry your brand because they couldn’t compete with Arctic Cats preseason pricing. How do you sell a Sidewinder when a Thundercat costs less? That’s got to say something right there.

See above comments for some of the 2021 changes.

The Spring Order programs for each manufacturer differ greatly. That being said we have actually seen an increase in our spring order Sidewinders not a decrease.

Maybe Jaret would be so kind and answer this question... why can't Yamaha build their own chassis? you have the best motors no question asked, I think some true blues have been waiting on Yamaha and were hoping for something other than a co shared chassis for 2021, the pro cross has filled in and kept Yamaha in the game but I think as Yamaha true blues we would like to see a chassis we can call or own again.

You will see a post come out this week with my dealer address explaining scale-ability. We talked about it before in the Japan VLOG.

Well this is what I will say people asked for a mountain sled they gave us one we asked for an entry level sled they gave us one weather or not it's what everyone wanted well that's up to you

Great Post.
I think the difficult part for me is reading the part about "future projects with AC". It doesn't feel like just a project. Toyota and BMW worked on the new Z4 and Supra project together. Both sell the car under different names with slight changes. Both companies still maintained their own identities in the automotive market outside of the collaboration between them. This partnership looks and feels very one sided from where we Yamaha faithful are sitting. All of these projects look like 90% cat and 10 % Yamaha. Seven model years in, the Yamaha DNA is all but gone. If Yamaha is giving up on sled production themselves then just say so and give it all to Cat. Give them the reliable ECU that made the 1050 in Nytro and Vector form run flawlessly. No reflashes, no hot start problems etc. Sell them all the tech to make it work right because it seems that Yamaha has no intent in using it in the future. Sell cat your chaincase setup so that's not a problem. Sell them EPS. Sell them the chip controlled throttle set up for the 1050. Why not? If Yamaha has no intent to continue being a snowmobile manufacturer then why not make the Cat partnership the absolute best that it can be?

SXVenom has been a collaborative project for many years. The biggest challenge for a 7/8 size snowmobile targeting new comers to the snowmobile industry is cost. Cost was a big target for this project and it was sensitive to significant changes.

Plastic tooling is very expensive, we could have made the unit more unique to Yamaha however this would have affected the price of the unit. Our designers and AC's designers worked closely in the development of the plastic for the SXVenom/Blast to ensure the unit was acceptable by both sides.

The Z4/Supra is a great example of how other manufacturing competitors work together to bring a vehicle to the marketplace.

Still confused on the venom....I like the price, its entry level which I also like, but what are they getting? Is this compared to a 440 back in the day? So less then 70mph 50-60hp? I hate how vague it is. How does a customer know they are looking at, especially a entry level customer? If they worked 'years' you think there would be more on the web site then 3 sentence's describing the motor.

"The new hi-tech 397cc engine has all the features you'd expect to find in a top-of-the-line sled: computerized ignition (ECM), 3-stage exhaust power valve, batteryless fuel injection, electronic oil-injection and electric start. Tuned exhaust with EPTS (exhaust pipe temperature sensor) and a detonation sensor work together for reliable performance. A lightweight, counter-balance shaft handles unwanted vibration to deliver a smooth, wide range of power."

How much does it weigh? How does that compare to other sleds? I mean if this is entry level how do they know if this is attractive?

"The compact powerplant weighs in under 50 lbs, packing a mighty punch with its class-leading hp to weight ratio."

SXVenom is a potent single. Its essentially half of a 800.
It employs the same exhaust power valve tech as its big brother.
65 hp class power.
In testing this unit did well over 70mph, a few week's back at altitude during snow shoot full size adults were seeing high 60s.
Weight is in the low low 400s dry.

Compare to other sleds? More Nimble, lighter weight, more playful. Shifting your weight around on this sled makes a big difference. It is a ton of fun to ride in the tight twisties, the power plant is responsive and has that high strung 2 stroke feeling. We position this vehicle as not just a youth/teen snowmobile but an affordable vehicle for new riders to get into snowmobiling. A couple of these for someone who has a cottage or cabin will get them into snowmobiling for reasonable money and kick off their passion for the sport.

I bet it's hard to make those calls when another manufacturer is making your product for you. The fact that the mountain Max and venom are 100% Cat blows my mind. And instead of addressing problems like blown up chaincase, ect......New skis? What the hell.

And this will be a post that JMS or Yamaha won't respond to, or at least give an honest response on. Just like like how they won't give an answer that they will design and build their own sled.

Guys, We are here to answer comments and provide insight where to can to the loyal TY community. If people are just going to be negative and bash we will no longer be on here.

 

[Wannaviper]

No doubt the sidewinder is a speed demon. I'd like to see Yamaha address issues such as:
- OEM skis that work
- Improved rider ergonomics
- Technology advances such as touch screens with GPS maps installed
- Improved chassis designs - other OEM's continue to improve and evolve their design
- Clutching and belt life improvements
- weight
- etc...

Just haven't seen enough forward thinking as a consumer for the Yamaha product in several years.

I think Yamaha did just address your first issue, they have introduced a brand new OEM ski that they promise will work.

As to improved rider ergonomics, I am not sure what needs improvement there? I just rode @500 miles in two days on my Sidewinder, and it is the most comfortable sled I have ever ridden. If I had to improve any ergonomics on the sled, I wouldn't know where to start.

Technology advances such as GPS are nice, but honestly, I have a Garmin GPS I trust more, and it has gone through several sleds and several 4 wheelers, and I take it with me on my boat. When I buy my Yamaha sled, they don't tack on a few hundred dollars more for the GPS that will stay with the sled when it is wrecked, traded or sold.

Improved chassis designs, yeah they could make changes, but I am not sure that newer is always better. They did change the Pro Cross front end last year, presumably to make what has been considered the best front end in the business even better. I don't know whether they succeeded, but give them an "A" for effort.

Clutching and belt life improvements? I have 5,000 miles on my Sidewinder with the original belt and a stock clutch. What is the problem?

Weight is an issue for 4-strokes, no question about it. I try not to get stuck because I know what it will be like trying to get the sled out. They probably could shave some weight, but I am not sure where, or what the cost would be in terms of the durability of components.

Sorry, I am a fan of my Yamaha sleds, and I can't think of a lot of things I would change on them, even if I could.

 

[JMS@Yamaha]

Venom is cool, transporter 800 is cool, transporter lite is cool, the mountain max is cool, the Winders are cool, wish there was a Viper BTX, but I digress. The perception is widely that most of Yamaha's lineup is "all Cat" with Yamaha graphics. It is, for lack of a better term, grounding to see JMS describe the collaboration that took place before the products were released; whether the products can stand up to customer whims and the test of real world conditions remains to be seen. If there is no difference in the mechanics of the sleds, the question that I come up with is, why would someone choose a Yamaha over a Cat or vice versa? Is there enough of a difference in warranty to justify the price differences? I don't know. I don't know the business. It's great that Yamaha brought some 2 strokes out, and it's great to see mid sized sleds. Heck I might even hop on to the transporter lite or Venom since they are the size I am after.

The transporter lite is a real gem. The clutches engage smooth and low and allow you to navigate tight areas very easily. They also stay engaged very low (~3000rpm) allowing you to lug it through tight slow terrain.

One big push for us is 4-seasonality for our dealer network, the same dealer a customer buys his outboard, boat or motorcycle from is the dealer that sells and services his snowmobile. Building this relationship and keeping customers in the same dealer is very important.

Programs differ greatly between brands, availability in season vs spring order also differs. There are many factors to consider.

Ok fellas i gotta throw my 2 cents in as well, hope jaret is still reading and responds. First off i was a licensed tech back in late 80s and up to 98 then i saw the light
Started out at a yamaha dealer in ottawa which by 91 was the only triple line snowmobile dealer in Canada. We had yamaha cat and polaris
Since i started on yamaha and had lots of experience on them and i quickly realized the difference between japanese precission quality and usa made inferior products.
Cat came with a huge binder of recalls and service bulletins, some sleds had bulletins attached to the sleds when we uncrated them we had to do repairs the factory did not complete.
Anyways i, like all the rest of you would appreciate a straight answer from yamaha on 2 main things.
1. The poor quality of design on the mentioned sidewinder components chaincase etc
( all which i have repaired on mine thanks to the advice from all on here)
2. Will yamaha get back in the game with their own products?
I like my sidewinder but hate all the cat problems that go with it as well as the fit and finish.
Wonder if Jared will be at the ottawa dealer show on march 17/18

1. We are working on improving quality of the units constantly, as outlined in one of my above posts.
2. This year marks a significant shift in our product offering, we are targeting new areas of the market that we were not in before (MTN, Affordable mid size, 2-Stroke Utility), and we are able to have a diverse offering due to our supply agreement and collaboration with our partners at AC. At this time we are happy with the current relationship and quick speed we have to react and bring products to the market.

Unfortunately i wont be at Ottawa, i will be in Barrie.

I will be trying a set of these since my Pilots are getting badly wore. Lot of nice features and good they thought about shimming. Something a few of my buddies and I do that many laugh at. Makes a huge difference to me.
Question that I dont know if you are allowed to answer which may open eyes to some decisions being made if true.
I was told that since the 5 year Cat/Yamaha agreement is over that Cat/Yamaha entered into a new agreement that really has no ending date since the agreement is that either Company is allowed to buy any of each others product/parts and that if bought replacement parts must be supplied for two years ?
Now if I was running Yamaha and wanted to make $ a deal like that is really low risk and high profit potential since there is no real commitment. Can you talk about the current agreement? Or do you know what it is?

It is an ongoing agreement.

Also I noticed on the Yamaha Website under features for the Venom they list a servo activated reverse. I believe that is a mistake. The cat unit I rode had engine reverse which eliminates the troublesome mechanisms in the case.

You are correct it is engine reverse which spins the motor backwards.

The good:

1. Yamaha still offer the fastest production snowmobile ever produced that can easily make 300HP with a few addons and a tune
2. Yamaha still has a great mid range power 4 stroke (1049) to use in multiple platforms like the Viper, Venture etc...
3. Yamaha mow offers a 400 CC 2 stroke "tweener" platform that will be perfect for my now 10 year old son in a couple years
4. Yamaha now offers a 800cc 2 stroke (which makes similar power to the 850s from other manufacturers) in a mountain platform with what appears to be an amazing suspension for the intended riding which everyone was crying for
5. Yamaha has filled in many gaps that can hopefully make their snowmobile line more profitable, sustainable and hopefully attain some R&D money from corporate

the bad:

1. many of these products come directly from or thru a partnership with Arctic Cat
2. Yamaha has not fixed the few reliability issues in the procross that seem to be issues from the partnership, chaincase, trihub etc...

I for one am happy that they are taking steps to be sustainable while offering great performance options for us, Yamaha snowmobiles is a business and needs to make a profit or they will be no more. the gaps they filled will hopefully be enough to keep them in business until they define the path forward with a partnership or on their own.

I have both a Viper and a Sidewinder, the Viper is at 5000 miles and just had it's first repair (TriHub) the Sidewinder is at 6000 miles all tuned, has never let me down and is not driven easy. All of my riding buddies ride SkiDoo 800s, 850s, 1200 Turbos trying to beat my Sidewinder. I get a lot of sh*t but have never had to be towed out of the trail, I can say in the last 5 years of riding I have towed about 10 sleds while riding with friends and none were Yamahas. I am a very happy customer, with that said fix the common failures already!!

You understand. Time to market and ROI all affect decisions made for the product offering. Getting relevant products to the market and expanding to more segments help to strengthen the business. As with the inventory correction in 2019 each decision is methodical with the overall business in mind.

 

[putz21]

Thank you Jaret for coming on here and responding to posts. It actually makes me feel much better the company standing behind their product is listening to all of us. Glad to hear changes are being made and you are all aware of the common issues.

For me, I couldn't be happier with my Sidewinder! I absolutely love this machine and brings me smiles every time I am on it. The front end is awesome (best out there), ergonomics are perfect (tried my bro's ski-doo 900t and felt I was sitting on the ground), rear suspension (good), engine (all smiles), looks (frick'n sexy fast look!).

Due to this amazing site, I now know what areas to watch out for and maintain. Just like any other sled, you ride hard things are going to wear and you need to keep a close eye out. Unfortunately, my season is over at 2,400 great miles and smiles this year! Already thinking about December and snow!

Thank you Jaret for coming on here!