2022 Power Surge Cancellations

[STAIN]

My EPS sled is currently listed for the 2nd half of February.

Mine was listed as late December as of 2 weeks ago. I am not optimistic.

 

[hibshman25]

My dealer just called this afternoon and my GT which was mid to end of December is now late February....

 

[whitedust1]

Ok?
My point is this is not a problem isolated to the Yamaha-Textron partnership. Everyone is the industry, almost all industry, has had supply chain issues.
I would think Yamaha knows Cat is not to blame for what is happening.
Just as Yamaha would love to build and sell every sled they committed to, I am sure Textron wants to build and sell Yamaha every sled they committed to building for them.
Yamaha and Cat would have had supply issues even if they where not dependent on each other for certain items and/or manufacturing.
To say this will be the breaking point between the 2 companies? I just don't see it.
Are some insinuating that the lack of EPS models right now could be Cat saying " the heck with Yamaha , we are building our sleds FIRST!!" ??? That seems to be what some think. I have no knowledge of any of this. If that is true, THEN I can see a huge problem.
I could be wrong, I am no expert.
My point was to those saying that Textron may nix the partnership was this--Yamaha gives Textron an awful lot of money to build the Yamaha sleds, why would they give them the boot?

OEM strategic partnerships are fragile when one partner becomes more dependent than the other for producing a turnkey product. In this case Textron uses 1 engine from their OEM partners in a vertical slice product the Thundercat. On the other hand Yamaha entire snowmobile market is dependent on the Textron chassis and TRF assembly line. Yamaha is a good customer but when hard times come for whatever reason the controlling OEM will ALWAYS service their core customers first. That’s just good business and self preservation. Textron has this OEM relationship because it allows both companies to produce a better turnkey product than they can in-house without the partnership. Currently it is debatable the value Yamaha brings to the OEM relationship for Textron. Ok it worked over many years but Yamaha doesn’t bring much to the party for Textron anymore the relationship has totally changed on the production side. The procross is getting old in the tooth and some day they will need to move on to a new platform. At that point do they care to share that platform with Yamaha or terminate the agreement and hope that they will absorb Yamaha customers for those that will make the switch. At the top I can guarantee Yamaha management ain’t happy! Yamaha didn’t get a product and their engines were canceled plus their suppliers orders were cancelled as well. This hurt Yamaha big time in the pocket and their market reputation also suffered. When things like this happen the OEM relationship goes under the microscope so it will be interesting to see what happens from here.

 

[VK540V]

So far I’ve not read or heard anything about Cat cancelling customer orders. The sleds are seeing shipping delays but that’s across the board for everything. I’m still receiving X-mas presents I ordered for people back in mid November. Polaris is telling customers their sleds won’t be delivered until March in some cases. The only OEM that I’ve seen actively cancelling orders is Yamaha. The difference is Yamaha doesn’t actually build their own sleds. At the end of the day Cat/Textron is a competitor to Yamaha. They both sell sleds, ATV’s and UTV’s. Yamaha was foolish for going this direction by farming out their production to the competition and now it is biting them in the butt. Hopefully they see the error in their ways and they bring production back in-house to Yamaha, either in Japan or North America.

 

[RAMSOMAIR]

So far I’ve not read or heard anything about Cat cancelling customer orders. The sleds are seeing shipping delays but that’s across the board for everything. I’m still receiving X-mas presents I ordered for people back in mid November. Polaris is telling customers their sleds won’t be delivered until March in some cases. The only OEM that I’ve seen actively cancelling orders is Yamaha. The difference is Yamaha doesn’t actually build their own sleds. At the end of the day Cat/Textron is a competitor to Yamaha. They both sell sleds, ATV’s and UTV’s. Yamaha was foolish for going this direction by farming out their production to the competition and now it is biting them in the butt. Hopefully they see the error in their ways and they bring production back in-house to Yamaha, either in Japan or North America.

Not worth Yamaha's time, money or effort to get into sleds. The money is in ATVs/ATVs/Watercraft/motorcycles where product sells and is used year round over 80% of the world. Cold hard fact, but sledding is on its way out unfortunately,

 

[VK540V]

Not worth Yamaha's time, money or effort to get into sleds. The money is in ATVs/ATVs/Watercraft/motorcycles where product sells and is used year round over 80% of the world. Cold hard fact, but sledding is on its way out unfortunately,

I disagree, Yamaha still manufactures a handful of made in Japan sleds like the VK and a touring model. They royaly screwed up by dropping 2-strokes and going all in on 4-strokes. Their biggest problem was they quit developing and innovating their sleds and sales dropped. The bean counters saw decreasing sales and cut back R&D money. Sales dropped even more. Ski-Doo was in the same spot in the early 90’s, 4th in sales, stagnant product line and instead of giving up they innovated and are now #1 and have been since ‘03!

Yamaha was like the Toyota of the sled industry, making sleds that were reliable, dependable and well built. But unlike Toyota that didn’t decide to farm out their production to Dodge/Fiat or whatever that company is called now. And then wonder why people no longer viewed their product in the same way. Toyota remains successful by keeping production in house.

Yamaha should get back to its roots selling small, reliable sleds for kids, teens and families. Sleds that run and run with little maintenance. Maybe they’ll do that with electric sleds? I don’t know but something has to change.

 

[RAMSOMAIR]

Its gonna change to no sleds soon unfortunately. The planet is on fire man, not enough ROI in sleds anymore.

 

[sailor joe]

I would imagine Cat and Yamaha have contracts they need to adhere to. When they decided to go into basically a partnership they both won...Cat got more production and Yamaha got to cut employees and cut costs. I'm sure both companies looked at long term bottom line for profit.
Hearing allot about EPS and hopes for adding it onto other models like the SRX..I have GSE EPS and think it's pretty awesome. I think next years models are going to be even more expensive, it just makes sense with inflation, Sidewinder and Cat owners without EPS may want to consider the aftermarket...let's face it these sleds last a long time with proper maintenance. Friend of mine got 50K miles out of his RX1 before he traded it in.

 

[Confused]

I would imagine Cat and Yamaha have contracts they need to adhere to. When they decided to go into basically a partnership they both won...Cat got more production and Yamaha got to cut employees and cut costs. I'm sure both companies looked at long term bottom line for profit.
Hearing allot about EPS and hopes for adding it onto other models like the SRX..I have GSE EPS and think it's pretty awesome. I think next years models are going to be even more expensive, it just makes sense with inflation, Sidewinder and Cat owners without EPS may want to consider the aftermarket...let's face it these sleds last a long time with proper maintenance. Friend of mine got 50K miles out of his RX1 before he traded it in.

Sadly you're right. It's very unlikely my next sled will be a Yamaha. I was considering jumping ship to SD last year when I bought my SW. Had I waited, I probably would have bought the Mach Z. With that, the SW will be in the stable for several years. Maybe things will change.

 

[Fords4life]

One thing is for sure that our snowmobile seasons are getting shorter. I started in the late seventies when snow was on the ground in wisconsin by mid november and it stayed till end of march, not anymore, so because of this less people interested in sport, and not a cheap sport nowdays, all in all maybe we should feel foretunet to have the great yammicats we have, i do....and hope they stay together as partners!

 

[STAIN]

I would guess Yamaha is probably making more money on the sled side than ever. No production, no R&D, and according to Jarrett a record year in pre sold sales. They claim they are still delivering %91 of their sleds.

At the top I can guarantee Yamaha management ain’t happy!

Or do they really care? The snow side is miniscule in the big picture for Yamaha.
If Textron cuts the agreement, then Yamaha snow division may be in trouble. Time will tell
How bad do they want to be a four-season company? They have put value in that in the past.
I doubt production will ever go back to Japan. More likely a multi-use production line here in the U.S.

Cold hard fact, but sledding is on its way out unfortunately,

It actually back on the rise out here. More and more sleds getting registered in the last few years. That and our membership has gone up also.....

 

[RAMSOMAIR]

I would guess Yamaha is probably making more money on the sled side than ever. No production, no R&D, and according to Jarrett a record year in pre sold sales. They claim they are still delivering %91 of their sleds.

Or do they really care? The snow side is miniscule in the big picture for Yamaha.
If Textron cuts the agreement, then Yamaha snow division may be in trouble. Time will tell
How bad do they want to be a four-season company? They have put value in that in the past.
I doubt production will ever go back to Japan. More likely a multi-use production line here in the U.S.

It actually back on the rise out here. More and more sleds getting registered in the last few years. That and our membership has gone up also.....

Once the Covid relief is burned up, I think that may change.

 

[STAIN]

Once the Covid relief is burned up, I think that may change.

I hope not. It is not just new sleds. It is people who haven't ridden for a while and are now getting back in. Or some who are just starting. I know a few in their late 20s's and thirties who are just getting in and some older people whose kid are grown getting back into it.
Once someone who used to ride gets to ride a newer sled, they can't believe the difference, the ease and dependability a newer sled provides.
It has been on the rise here for a few years.

 

[whitedust1]

I would guess Yamaha is probably making more money on the sled side than ever. No production, no R&D, and according to Jarrett a record year in pre sold sales. They claim they are still delivering %91 of their sleds.

Or do they really care? The snow side is miniscule in the big picture for Yamaha.
If Textron cuts the agreement, then Yamaha snow division may be in trouble. Time will tell
How bad do they want to be a four-season company? They have put value in that in the past.
I doubt production will ever go back to Japan. More likely a multi-use production line here in the U.S.

It actually back on the rise out here. More and more sleds getting registered in the last few years. That and our membership has gone up also.....

Somebody better care at Yamaha or Textron will run ruff shod over the Yamaha agreement. Nobody cares ....Textron can ignore their partner ship with Yamaha no one to hold their feet to the fire. Someone has to be accountable or this agreement is total BS and will definitely be terminated. How can you do business when no one cares???

 

[VK540V]

Somebody better care at Yamaha or Textron will run ruff shod over the Yamaha agreement. Nobody cares ....Textron can ignore their partner ship with Yamaha no one to hold their feet to the fire. Someone has to be accountable or this agreement is total BS and will definitely be terminated. How can you do business when no one cares???

I don’t see Yamaha having much leverage with the agreement. I see Cat/Textron ATV’s and UTV’s for sale at Cabelas, they are smart to branch out to non traditional power sports vendors. I think Cat is on their way past their rough patch and no longer needs Yamaha like they did before. Aside from the 120, what other Yamaha engines are they using anymore? The turbocharged 998? The agreement looks pretty one sided to me nowadays. The 2-stroke Yamaha‘s don’t even have Yamaha clutches or anything Yamaha on them aside from stickers. I remember the original Viper was more of a shared platform with each brand making their own minimal changes. Now you don’t even see that.

Yamaha should start building their own sleds in Georgia at their ATV plant.