2022 Power Surge Cancellations

[sailor joe]

Mine was listed as late December as of 2 weeks ago. I am not optimistic.

hang in there, someone posted a picture of 2 tractor truck loads of new Yamaha sleds...it's happening. I got a trail report today from the Forks, they do not expect to open trails until sometime in January and at least not for the nest 10 days.
My daughter lives in Vermont, she said they did have some snow in the Waitsfield area but not enough yet. Joe

 

[whitedust1]

I don’t see Yamaha having much leverage with the agreement. I see Cat/Textron ATV’s and UTV’s for sale at Cabelas, they are smart to branch out to non traditional power sports vendors. I think Cat is on their way past their rough patch and no longer needs Yamaha like they did before. Aside from the 120, what other Yamaha engines are they using anymore? The turbocharged 998? The agreement looks pretty one sided to me nowadays. The 2-stroke Yamaha‘s don’t even have Yamaha clutches or anything Yamaha on them aside from stickers. I remember the original Viper was more of a shared platform with each brand making their own minimal changes. Now you don’t even see that.

Yamaha should start building their own sleds in Georgia at their ATV plant.

Yes the agreement is very 1 sided Textron has little need for engines from Yamaha. Textron wants money from Yamaha for assembly and chassis tech and when that’s a bigger pita than it’s worth Textron moves on without Yamaha. I think with supply chain issues it’s getting close to that. Unfortunately I doubt Yamaha is interested in manufacturing their own sleds their market share is too small no ROI for tooling. If the Textron agreement goes south that’s probably the end of blue cats. Yamacats had a good run but never was supposed to be a permanent solution for the Yamaha snow division in house manufacturing slump. What was a mutually beneficial but temporary partnership has become very one sided with little Yamaha leverage other than money.

 

[sailor joe]

Yes the agreement is very 1 sided Textron has little need for engines from Yamaha. Textron wants money from Yamaha for assembly and chassis tech and when that’s a bigger pita than it’s worth Textron moves on without Yamaha. I think with supply chain issues it’s getting close to that. Unfortunately I doubt Yamaha is interested in manufacturing their own sleds their market share is too small no ROI for tooling. If the Textron agreement goes south that’s probably the end of blue cats. Yamacats had a good run but never was supposed to be a permanent solution for the Yamaha snow division in house manufacturing slump. What was a mutually beneficial but temporary partnership has become very one sided with little Yamaha leverage other than money.

you hit the nail right on the head"money"...thats what bean counters care about, that's what investors care about and when the CEO doesn't produce that green stuff then they get someone who can. Bean counters care nothing about the men and women in the supply chain or the assembly line..so as far as that goes they don't care about production being a PITA.
I'd be real nice if the great designers/engineers at Yamaha gave it another shot at production but the pro cross chasis is holding their engines and good enough. it can't be too much work on the assembly line to change a panel from green to blue. But if Yamaha has a plant in Georgia then never say never.
It would be a shame if Yamaha got out of the business, their products are very good and to see only 3 manufacturers in the game would not be good for the sport...loss of innovation.

 

[VK540V]

I suspect Yamaha has some type of non-performance language in their contracts with Cat but at the end of the day they don’t have sleds to sell and end up having to cancel customer orders. Yamaha has stretched out their brand loyalty to the absolute limit first with the switch to 4-strokes and then giving up and turning manufacturing over to Cat. None of this bodes well for them as they simply don’t have an abundance of customers to begin with. They piss off the few remaining people that have stuck with them and they are out of customers.

Right now they pretty much can’t do anything worse and should do something big and different to save themselves. Hell, use the VK tooling to reintroduce the original Phazer as a retro model. Street bike OEM’s do this all the time, The Phazer was a small, light weight sled and would fit kids really well.

I forgot all about this manufacturing agreement originally being billed as a temporary arrangement. It’s been in place way too long and the sled choices are becoming more and more pathetic. The sidewinder was being developed by Yamaha before the Cat agreement was signed. Since then, what exactly has the agreement brought that was innovative or unique? They’ve put all their eggs in the Sidewinder basket, a top of the line, very expensive model.
They don’t offer anything for the heart of the market which is a lower priced performance sled. Ski-Doo was in the same situation in the early 90’s. The Mach 1 was their best selling sled. It was the fastest, most high performance and expensive sled they made. That’s not where you want to be. Ski-Doo was a solid 4th place in sales back then. Funny how Yamaha is in the same exact position following the same flawed formula. Only this time they are not even building the sleds. COVID-19 might be the thing that puts the sled division under for good. Ironically, COVID is also why the sled OEM’s were all getting record snowchecks. Yamaha has put themselves in terrible position to take advantage of the popularity surge in snowmobiling.

 

[whitedust1]

you hit the nail right on the head"money"...thats what bean counters care about, that's what investors care about and when the CEO doesn't produce that green stuff then they get someone who can. Bean counters care nothing about the men and women in the supply chain or the assembly line..so as far as that goes they don't care about production being a PITA.
I'd be real nice if the great designers/engineers at Yamaha gave it another shot at production but the pro cross chasis is holding their engines and good enough. it can't be too much work on the assembly line to change a panel from green to blue. But if Yamaha has a plant in Georgia then never say never.
It would be a shame if Yamaha got out of the business, their products are very good and to see only 3 manufacturers in the game would not be good for the sport...loss of innovation.

You only have 3 now blue cats are not an additional OEM manufacturer. Yamaha supplies 2 4s engines for 2 sleds with Yamaha graphics. These are distributed thru Yamaha dealers the rest are cat 2s sleds in blue plastic all manufactured at TRF. Yamaha Eps is a great innovation for 4s and just maybe Doo will use it too eventually.

 

[sailor joe]

You only have 3 now blue cats are not an additional OEM manufacturer. Yamaha supplies 2 4s engines for 2 sleds with Yamaha graphics. These are distributed thru Yamaha dealers the rest are cat 2s sleds in blue plastic all manufactured at TRF. Yamaha Eps is a great innovation for 4s and just maybe Doo will use it too eventually.

your point is good..perhaps they can come up with more market share. I didn't know Yamaha was working on the SW before the merger with Cat.
The problem with EPS in a Ski Doo is there's no room to put it in with current configuration or I'm sure they would have it in their sleds. There is a problem with the direction of the steering column that doesn't allow room for the motor for EPS, otherwise there would be an aftermarket EPS for the Doo. I have aftermarket EPS on my 2020STX..it is saving my elbow from tendonitis flareups...its a beautiful thing!!!

 

[Fords4life]

Yamaha snowmobile division still has hope if textron kicks them to the curb, its called polaris, polaris has no 4 strokes!!!

 

[whitedust1]

Yamaha snowmobile division still has hope if textron kicks them to the curb, its called polaris, polaris has no 4 strokes!!!

Ever talk to anyone from Polaris they aren’t interested in 4s engines for snowmobiles not even the slightest interest. They are the lightweight champs all bout 2s engines. Polaris thinks the 4s sled market is vertical not a profitable endeavor. Polaris could easily develop a 4s sled engine just not interested. I’m sure Yamaha makes inquiries from time to time just good business to do so. Textron/ Yamaha partnership ends Yamaha is on their own probably still supply the Thundercat engine to Textron unless they decide to go all 2s turbos.

 

[Fords4life]

Ever talk to anyone from Polaris they aren’t interested in 4s engines for snowmobiles not even the slightest interest. They are the lightweight champs all bout 2s engines. Polaris thinks the 4s sled market is vertical not a profitable endeavor. Polaris could easily develop a 4s sled engine just not interested. I’m sure Yamaha makes inquiries from time to time just good business to do so. Textron/ Yamaha partnership ends Yamaha is on their own probably still supply the Thundercat engine to Textron unless they decide to go all 2s turbos.

I was just being a " funny" guy, i hope to hell they keep the partnership, i for one love the products they have built, i came from decades of ski doos, and i dont want to ever go back after having 3 of these sleds.

 

[Sledroll]

I was just being a " funny" guy, i hope to hell they keep the partnership, i for one love the products they have built, i came from decades of ski doos, and i dont want to ever go back after having 3 of these sleds.

Is there anyone who ordered a SRX or a LTX- GT EPS sled in Canada or the US , after April 8th that has actually received the sled or been advised when it is coming ?

 

[STAIN]

Yamaha snowmobile division still has hope if textron kicks them to the curb, its called polaris, polaris has no 4 strokes!!!

Ugh!!! I hope not. The last brand I would buy. ill handling machines.

 

[VK540V]

Ugh!!! I hope not. The last brand I would buy. ill handling machines.

Polaris? lll handling? You’ve got to be kidding. They have the best front end in the business and are well known for their excellent handling characteristics.

 

[VK540V]

Ever talk to anyone from Polaris they aren’t interested in 4s engines for snowmobiles not even the slightest interest. They are the lightweight champs all bout 2s engines. Polaris thinks the 4s sled market is vertical not a profitable endeavor. Polaris could easily develop a 4s sled engine just not interested. I’m sure Yamaha makes inquiries from time to time just good business to do so. Textron/ Yamaha partnership ends Yamaha is on their own probably still supply the Thundercat engine to Textron unless they decide to go all 2s turbos.

Polaris and Cat seem to copy each other all the time. I could see Cat chasing after the 2-stroke turbo market. The biggest market and interest is mountain riding and watch any video and the 2-stroke turbos are light, nimble and powerful. The sidewinder can only choose one and that is powerful. Sure, it’ll be more reliable but that market doesn’t care.

The more I think about it, the more convinced I’m getting that Yamaha is waiting things out with ice engines. They were burned so bad on emissions when they thought 2-stroke sleds would be legislated out of existence then they weren’t. If I were an OEM, I would be investing R&D into EV’s. Yamaha has experience with EV’s, they’ve got a legitimate EV trials bike that competes in an EV circuit and it is rumored they are testing an electric YZ motocross bike.

Polaris will likely beat them to the market with EV technology but Yamaha’s will likely be way more refined. Check out this small start up company and their new EV dirt bike. To me, what’s not to like?

 

[Fords4life]

Ugh!!! I hope not. The last brand I would buy. ill handling machines.

You make me laugh at myself, i was like you, i couldnt make myself utter a good word about polaris if you paid me to. That was until last winter when i met up with two fellas from iowa out here in the black hills of s.d. we switched sleds, one cat 8000, one polaris crossover 144? and my 2018 thundercat, i climed abourd that 2018 polaris 800 not expecting much...but i came away impressed!!! Real nice power, handled excellant, road nice and i pushed it hard. I got off when he finaly caught up give him a fist bump and said " this hurts me but you have a realy sweet sled" i let him know why i said it realy hurts me to say, all the years i was around the " joke" of the snow polaris, motors that were suspect at best, all i know is i loved it when they showed up at raydar runs, grassdrags, ice drags is they made the cash pot bigger for me to get a piece of...lol

 

[STAIN]

Polaris? lll handling? You’ve got to be kidding. They have the best front end in the business and are well known for their excellent handling characteristics.

No kidding. I ride with a bunch of 850's, 129 and 137. I have gotten to ride 4-5 of them on multiple occasions. Ill handling is how I describe them. Excessive body roll, darty, unstable. . The Procross front end feels much, much more stable, especially at higher speeds.
3 of the 7 Polaris guys I ride with wish they bought Thundercats after riding them. They cant believe how stable and easy steering they are.
One buddy had 4500 miles on his 850 and the whole front end was played out. I have seen another one with @2000 miles and the ball joint was loose.
Best front end in the business??? Hardly, Dont believe everything you read, go ride one.