225 flash

[KnappAttack]

Mike, did you get yours setup already? What are you gonna run for map?

I wanted to know what you went with...I know you were working with Dave but not sure which map.

Im anxious to start from square one, and see how the stock sled spools...as every advertisement from Yammie talks about throttle response, and ofcourse after I worked on toms, I was never able to find another SW anywhere to compare it to.

Sure it was an animal on mid and top, but that split second delay when you stab it to launch off a knoll, and it goes nowhere until you landed in the hole on other side, is quite maddening....All while watching the 1200s, and etecs lift their noses at each stab instantly. Makes the sled feel heavy and slow.

So im dying to have mine new, stock and I will know right away cause how toms reacted is embedded into my mind on our trails.And now Tom and I can compare side by side,back to back.

I would love to get with Dave and try for myself the low spooling map....I just want reliability too,and Ben has sold me a few tunes and I never have to worry about them for that. Not saying any other maps are not reliable. But its nice to hear feedback from Powertrail guys who got stuck in 4 foot drifts running 87 octane only for hours, and never any deto.....I just want to be smart here, and more wanting trail-ability then huge top end power if I had to choose.

Dan

Dan, I went with Hurricane's complete bundle of tunes with the bluetooth dongle so I have all the tunes from stock muffler up to the 280 Race tune. I plan to run most between the 280 trail and the 280 race tune. My guess is I will have the 280 Race tune in it 99% of the time, I have a friend running that tune in his all the time along with the Sandale stock muffler mod and he says runs flawlessly on the trail, nice and quiet and better fuel mileage than stock. Plus, we have a BP station with 93 octane here now so should be no problems at all running race tune all the time. I have the Hurricane-Hindle muffler now and will order up Hurricane's stock type hi-flow, big power replica muffler when it comes out this fall too. If fuel is questionable I can easily drop down to the 270 or 240 trail tune.

Also ordered up a PB-80 to try yesterday that is just out brand new for the winder to play with. Got the first one in the states to play with! So will have plenty of options to pick from. Loved it on my boosted 1200 and should be just as good on the winder. May even get rid of that awful clutch rattle I just hate!

It responds very well stock because it carries boost thru the mid-range the same as it does up top and its clutched accordingly and reacts like it should. Its perfect in stock trim. You wan't have any lag. They are lazy at first and wake up like all Yamaha's do with miles, so don't be disappointed at first. Once broke in mine turned 9000 RPM with stock clutching on 100% stock setup!

 

[KnappAttack]

All first version tunes.... all have changed immensely... it's not even fair mentioning it here... it would be like me mentioning those tunes that motors failed on... you might want to look at the huge numbers td tail tunes are running at the strip lately for a better idea... spooling is a non issue on the tunes power wise i think your looking at.... and seriously...td has flashed 10s of thousands of tunes on turbo fourstrokes before others have ever tried to flash one...

The sleds running at the strip have anti-lag active, they leave under boost! You don't used anti-lag running down the trail at mid range RPM. The winders with tunes all ramp the boost up over RPM and feel lazy because the clutch is loaded for max RPM boost. If they are not at max boost in the mid, it takes longer to bring the RPM up and they are lazy, no two ways around it.

Only way to make them react quicker is to increase the boost in mid-range to drive the clutch RPM up faster or re-clutch for the lesser mid-range boost. I prefer the boost to be there right away so its thrilling and fast reacting. I like the Race tunes quicker reactions in the mid-range so there is no lazyness.

 

[**sj**]

The sleds running at the strip have anti-lag active, they leave under boost! You don't used anti-lag running down the trail at mid range RPM. The winders with tunes all ramp the boost up over RPM and feel lazy because the clutch is loaded for max RPM boost. If they are not at max boost in the mid, it takes longer to bring the RPM up and they are lazy, no two ways around it.

Only way to make them react quicker is to increase the boost in mid-range to drive the clutch RPM up faster or re-clutch for the lesser mid-range boost. I prefer the boost to be there right away so its thrilling and fast reacting. I like the Race tunes quicker reactions in the mid-range so there is no lazyness.

good points...however if you load the motor sooner you are prone to deto which currently isnt detected or accounted for.....this deto can be catastrophic depending on the tune....TD for years beat the boys at D&D ...including me with my d&d setup by not loading the motor too hard and letting it rev....now this motor is LESS prone to deto ...good for us all....but Id advise some to be careful if tuners are doing this...load the motor with too much boost early with bad luck of fuel...could be a cocktail for failures?

I like your idea of the pb80....the simplicity cant be ignored...but I was under the impression they couldnt handle bigger power?

Ive decided on the full lot of TD tunes with the bluetooth dongle too...after seeing the running quality last year of eco...the revised powertrail and the max 17....WITH NO FAILURES this alone convinced me... I feel TD protects my motor best...

 

[KnappAttack]

good points...however if you load the motor sooner you are prone to deto which currently isnt detected or accounted for.....this deto can be catastrophic depending on the tune....TD for years beat the boys at D&D ...including me with my d&d setup by not loading the motor too hard and letting it rev....now this motor is LESS prone to deto ...good for us all....but Id advise some to be careful if tuners are doing this...load the motor with too much boost early with bad luck of fuel...could be a cocktail for failures?

I like your idea of the pb80....the simplicity cant be ignored...but I was under the impression they couldnt handle bigger power?

Ive decided on the full lot of TD tunes with the bluetooth dongle too...after seeing the running quality last year of eco...the revised powertrail and the max 17....WITH NO FAILURES this alone convinced me... I feel TD protects my motor best...

Correct on the deto. when the engine is under high BMEP (cylinder pressure which is always highest at peak Tq.) it is most prone to deto. BUT which is harder on it? The load from the clutch with less boost, or the load from higher boost where the clutch can drive thru it easier? Just my opinion that if you have higher boost and rev quicker to peak RPM, it will spend way less time running thru the lower RPM ranges when stabbing the throttle. When trail riding, if the boost is high but the throttle is not WFO, you are not driving cylinder pressures to high. I want my turbo spooling high when I want to play, if you are just going easy the turbo does not need to be spooled as high. I ran a bleed off wastegate controller on my Doo and I could just flip a valve on the dash for what ever I felt like on the fly just for this reason.

I ran the PB-80 on my turbo Doo up to 260 with no problem, Martin was pushing 300 HP on his Doo's on the PB-80. You are limited on engagement RPM so must make good bottom end power for it, they are a great trail clutch and should be no clutch noise at all too!

Protection is the responsibility of the guy putting the correct octane in for the boost being run and how long he decides to hold it open for. Boost is not for everyone.

 

[Dieselxtx]

The sleds running at the strip have anti-lag active, they leave under boost! You don't used anti-lag running down the trail at mid range RPM. The winders with tunes all ramp the boost up over RPM and feel lazy because the clutch is loaded for max RPM boost. If they are not at max boost in the mid, it takes longer to bring the RPM up and they are lazy, no two ways around it.

Only way to make them react quicker is to increase the boost in mid-range to drive the clutch RPM up faster or re-clutch for the lesser mid-range boost. I prefer the boost to be there right away so its thrilling and fast reacting. I like the Race tunes quicker reactions in the mid-range so there is no lazyness.

Right on when engaging a sled at 4500 rpm and making 4psi boost on the line there is no lag but whacking the throttle from a stop there definitely is more lag than my modded NA nytro. But love the setup with max pump and Thunderproducts clutching it is much better!

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Great thread guys...Mike and SJ with some fantastic info there I enjoyed reading.

I like Ben and Dave alot. I see Dave in my backyard many weekends, so that is a bonus. I have run Bens Tunes and they are proven.

I know for me, I could not live with how Toms works....I will figure out this season, if his is the norm or his has something else going on. I just know that delay was a massive let down. Heck my turbo cat with powertrail would haul the skis at will. So I do not blame the tune at all.

I would absolutely love to see A dyno from Bens max 17 tune, vs Daves 280 race tune.....on same dyno with same muffler mods ect....not so much worried about the max HP, but really enjoy looking at the exact rpms the boost comes on strong. This is why I appreciate Daves dyno sheets, to compare the early spool tunes to the normal over 7k spool tune....But to ride one is what will convince. lol

So Mike thanks so much for all this info...Knowing you are running the race 280 and your buddy is too, it will be nice to get lots of feedback from you. The idea of having the full gammit of tunes and the flasher, then using the iPhone to swap in a new map at will, is priceless......especially if the fuel is questionable on a tour up north. This is where I really miss my TD 4 stage rotary dial, man that was slick to turn the dial on the fly to change maps instantly. And the knock light too. Maybe Ben can bring that along somehow into the mix again for the SW. Sure gonna be fun the next few season seeing where the tuners take this engine.

Dan