300km ride today. Clutching review

[STAIN]

I went back to 6-2 wrap on B/orange secondary last night, it’s not anywhere close to what is was .

As far as performance you mean? What did you change from?

 

[ClutchMaster]

Oil light bushings are more of a clutch shaft bushing material.

 

[PowderFalcon]

Back to 6/3 - b/o for me......it ran great with this and cooler clutches, ultimax all fine so far.

Main reason is I did not see any big difference with bigger white except more heat on my type of trail(270) and lake(240) running. So i'm opting for less pressure on m TP rollers in aim to last as long as possible.

BTW near 2400 miles on TP rollers now, all good still. I do run less helix then many of you with red primary/2 glide washers and 77.3g.

Dan

whats your offset measure Dano?? Which helix? We run the same type of trail. gas on!!

Thanks!

 

[ClutchMaster]

The problem is the black/orange works good trail riding at lower speeds but slips above 100 mph. If your running an XS or JP belt don’t be afraid to unwind the cat spring some. It will reduce heat trail riding but the spring has more rate so it should still grip better on the big end.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

whats your offset measure Dano?? Which helix? We run the same type of trail. gas on!!

Thanks!

I had to go up 1mm due to my stub being pushed in. So Im at 58mm dead nuts offset.

37/35 helix w/Hi-Torque rollers, Mike tested the fiber rollers to rev less then a hard roller. Smoother operation IMO over my hard OSP rollers I tested.

Dan

 

[PowderFalcon]

I had to go up 1mm due to my stub being pushed in. So Im at 58mm dead nuts offset.

37/35 helix w/Hi-Torque rollers, Mike tested the fiber rollers to rev less then a hard roller. Smoother operation IMO over my hard OSP rollers I tested.

Dan

Man, we are running the same setup. I am hot, you are not!! (not in a good way! lol)

I am going to work toward the 60mm offset and see if the heat is reduced.

 

[Mototown]

As far as performance you mean? What did you change from?

I was at 9-2 with B/O dalton &290 hp setting it jumps right back on to RPM through trails on & off throttle response. At 6-2 it’s lazy from 4500-6000 rpm . I’m going on a week long trip next week so I want “less” chance of trail side problems. I will drop the hp also .

 

[ROCKERDAN]

The problem is the black/orange works good trail riding at lower speeds but slips above 100 mph. If your running an XS or JP belt don’t be afraid to unwind the cat spring some. It will reduce heat trail riding but the spring has more rate so it should still grip better on the big end.

I have no issues with B/O all the way up to top speeds....125mph on ice or roads ect. I believe the issue lies when running big speeds in snow,soft,or fresh lakes where tracks and soft are on/off.......the belt will slip when you hit a soft area then grip and its hard. This will shred a 8JP in seconds.

Ultimax does much better overall, even with the B/O at 6/2 which runs COLD clutches pretty much. For trails at 270 and big speeds /lakes at 240, that setup was fine for me much of this season. I upped the twist to 6/3 simply looking for more engine braking and it only added a tad, but did bring more heat. But not too much heat so I like this overall.

I started with white at 9/1 and it scorched my finger at touch....so went down to 6/3 with white and it was rather hot still, but ran that for 250 miles last weekend and Its fine. I just felt like my b/o at 6/3 is similar in performance with LESS heat and I know has less pressure on primary rollers, I just want to try to get thru season without needing rollers.

IMO there is a certain time that more back-pressure is needed above the b/o. Mike has explained it pretty good to me, and I feel for what Im doing its something I dont need.

Remember, if you are smoking belts on very top end that is likely the cause, slippage up on big end. I have never had that issue, and really ride fast trails more then anything.

I think the key for me this season has been the Ultimax belt(I ran 8jp most all last season blowing them) with lowered offset, and a tad more backpressure in secondary.

Another thing everyone needs to consider is traction. Mike runs sharpened studs, which is quite alot diff then my trail studs which are worn in....If you are hooking hard corner to corner, you may need the white to prevent slippage too IMO.

Dan

 

[Lusemeat924]

Man, we are running the same setup. I am hot, you are not!! (not in a good way! lol)

I am going to work toward the 60mm offset and see if the heat is reduced.

Your not the same set up buddd. Different weights, primary spring, and rollers.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Your not the same set up buddd. Different weights, primary spring, and rollers.

He is speaking in terms of the secondary

 

[Lusemeat924]

He is speaking in terms of the secondary

I realize that. But wouldn’t 2 completely different primary clutches cause the secondary to react differently? That was my train of thought, if clutches are in tune with each other, the problems should dicipate.

 

[KnappAttack]

I went to an even more stout secondary spring today, the Cutler silver/white set at 9-1, tomorrow its going to 9-2. Its the stiffest one I had here. Also went to the 39-35. Coolest setup I've ran all season using the 8DN, however I noticed the inside primary got real hot when running real hard in the deep drifted fresh snow for miles on end, movable is actually cold along with the secondary, craziest thing I've ever seen. I think I will try floating it 1mm-1.5mm or so tomorrow and see if that helps with that inner sheave heat on the primary. If that doesn't cool it down, I'm going to need to duct some hardcore airflow to that primary stationary sheave somehow.

 

[ClutchMaster]

I realize that. But wouldn’t 2 completely different primary clutches cause the secondary to react differently? That was my train of thought, if clutches are in tune with each other, the problems should dicipate.

Secondary dictates how hard the belt is grabbed according to the amount of torque applied to the belt. Technically if the his sled isn’t way off on rpm’s the force provided buy the primary should be pretty darn close even tho it’s running different weights and springs.

Question, why do some sleds with the same exact setup and tune burn belts and others don’t?

 

[sledding rocks]

I have no issues with B/O all the way up to top speeds....125mph on ice or roads ect. I believe the issue lies when running big speeds in snow,soft,or fresh lakes where tracks and soft are on/off.......the belt will slip when you hit a soft area then grip and its hard. This will shred a 8JP in seconds.

Ultimax does much better overall, even with the B/O at 6/2 which runs COLD clutches pretty much. For trails at 270 and big speeds /lakes at 240, that setup was fine for me much of this season. I upped the twist to 6/3 simply looking for more engine braking and it only added a tad, but did bring more heat. But not too much heat so I like this overall.

I started with white at 9/1 and it scorched my finger at touch....so went down to 6/3 with white and it was rather hot still, but ran that for 250 miles last weekend and Its fine. I just felt like my b/o at 6/3 is similar in performance with LESS heat and I know has less pressure on primary rollers, I just want to try to get thru season without needing rollers.

IMO there is a certain time that more back-pressure is needed above the b/o. Mike has explained it pretty good to me, and I feel for what Im doing its something I dont need.

Remember, if you are smoking belts on very top end that is likely the cause, slippage up on big end. I have never had that issue, and really ride fast trails more then anything.

I think the key for me this season has been the Ultimax belt(I ran 8jp most all last season blowing them) with lowered offset, and a tad more backpressure in secondary.

Another thing everyone needs to consider is traction. Mike runs sharpened studs, which is quite alot diff then my trail studs which are worn in....If you are hooking hard corner to corner, you may need the white to prevent slippage too IMO.

Dan

my results were pretty much the same as yours with the heavy springs , my clutches ran super hot with the ac green spring , when u threw snow on the clutch it sizzled off instantly ,I'm now trying the black/tan with good results , pretty much same temp as the black /orange . the black tan at 2-3 gives a better back shift then the black /orange , i have been trail riding with this spring , once condition get better on the lake I can see how well it will work at wot long pulls ,

 

[fatchance]

Secondary dictates how hard the belt is grabbed according to the amount of torque applied to the belt. Technically if the his sled isn’t way off on rpm’s the force provided buy the primary should be pretty darn close even tho it’s running different weights and springs.

Question, why do some sleds with the same exact setup and tune burn belts and others don’t?

There's been allot of snow this year and when guys are saying they're running hot or blowing belts they fail to mention trail conditions. I think it's important to include this info because we can't lead somebody into changing up their own set up because somebody else is running hot in powder or cool on hard pack. I put 1000 miles on my 8DN and i didn't think it would get me through one day as i was breaking trail for 2 straight days in 18 inches of fresh powder. I did however manage to shred it with some WOT pulls in 6+ inches of fresh snow on the lake. Sled was topping at 115 mph on GPS in these conditions.