rfabro
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Thanx, fly. This is something more than a few of us wanted to see. Hey, we need rear torsion springs from fx- they're almost 50% stiffer, but left side is backordered everywhere I look. WTF! Sorry about your rear shock, but what did it come from? Maybe answer that question on "frame strength" or "mtn lite suspension sucks" threads.
sniperviper
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I'v asked the yamaha guy and I think phazerfly have described the procedure right.
Only thing is that the wire is not green, its white and green on the phazer.
The mechanic also told me that yamaha told them to adjust the CO up from zero to 15 to solve the hard starting issue in cold weather.
Only thing is that the wire is not green, its white and green on the phazer.
The mechanic also told me that yamaha told them to adjust the CO up from zero to 15 to solve the hard starting issue in cold weather.
phazerfly
Extreme
Ya, sorry about the wire color, steps were for an apex I forgot the wire color. They discuss the electronics quite a bit on snowest, thats were I got those steps from.
swmpr1
Extreme
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2006
- Messages
- 82
Has anyone actually seen where this wire is ( the green one), I looked for the wire and couldnt find it on my FX , Id really like to get it to start better, it was -22 this weekend and it wouldnt start without putting the sled in a heated trailer for about an hour. just cranked, almost ran outta battery before I gave up and went the heater route.
swmpr1
Extreme
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2006
- Messages
- 82
I thought phazerfly said the green wire had to be grounded...hmm
phazerfly
Extreme
Ya, it's a green and white wire down on the oil tank side. Its a lone wire and not in a harness, and has no male mate to plug into it. That wire need to be grounded to put the computer into diagnostics mode. Also by adjusting the CO you are increasing the fuel basically to the idle circuit from what I'm told. It would be like changing pilot jets on the old 2 smoke carbs. Don't quote me on that though.
sniperviper
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Maybe two way to do it then bacause whan my dealer did it on a mountain light he grounded the green/white wire..
Irondoghalf
Veteran
You ought to be careful what you are doing here.
I have no idea whats in Yamaha's service manual, but I would suggest the average guy really has no clue how the intricate fuel injection system works.
Gypsy, this is not your fathers 1940 aircraft fuel system. You are talking carbureted engines there, not much different from a low-end current ATV (carbed) or an older 2-stroke outboard. They all have seperate idle circuits most adjustable by varying the amount of air available to them. The idle circuit contains a fixed jet, and by varying the amount of air through it, the venturi effect pulls less/more fuel depending on the adjustment. This is the done with the idle mixture screw, which only changes the amount of air made available to pull fuel through the idle jet.
In your case, we may be talking something entirely different. Once your sled starts, it idles fine, no? You, and others here, are having starting difficulties, which tell me it needs more fuel in the ENRICHMENT, or cold start mode.
The assortment of sensors in the EFI's, yours will be no different, include an air temp sensor most likely mounted in the airbox, a coolant temperature sensor in the jacket water, and a very important one mounted on the throttle body shaft, the TPS, or Throttle Position Sensor. All of these have fixed parameters, except the TPS. The TPS can dramatically effect the amount of fuel made available to the at the injectors.
The injector is a timed device. Its nothing more than an electric solenoid with a variable poppet valve. Depending on what parameters the aforementioned sensors have given the ECU (the "brain" of the sled), makes the difference where the poppet valve in the injector is located, hence the amount of fuel difference.
You mention in one post about disconnecting the fuel pump electrical feed to keep fuel from flooding the engine. You need to know this:
Unless the engine is cranked, NO fuel will ever feed through the injectors to the motor. Turning on your key only primes the fuel rail and injectors and brings them to regulated pressure. At this point, the system is ready to read information from the sensors to such as cold/hot engine, air temperature, coolant temperature, etc. When the key is turned on, this info is relayed immediatley, then when the engine is cranked, the injector is fired, which sprays the precise amount of fuel the sensors have told it to give.
Every bit of fuel in the injector is shot into the intake at the moment of firing. Its the parameters of the sensors that determine how much is there at that moment.
If Yamaha is allowing an adjustment to the amount of fuel made available to the engine, I don't see how they can do it for one circuit (cold start). I believe, and I certainly can be wrong, the adjustment you had done effects the entire system, so you now have a higher fuel use everywhere. Since you state the system can be altered through the instrument pod, you have not fed it any "input". Reflash of ECU's is usually done with a laptop and software, telling the ECU to change its parameters. I believe that this is the ONLY way to change just one parameter, such as enrichening the cold start circuit, which in your case, you want. You do not need more fuel everywhere else on the powerband!
My opinion, for what its worth.
I have no idea whats in Yamaha's service manual, but I would suggest the average guy really has no clue how the intricate fuel injection system works.
Gypsy, this is not your fathers 1940 aircraft fuel system. You are talking carbureted engines there, not much different from a low-end current ATV (carbed) or an older 2-stroke outboard. They all have seperate idle circuits most adjustable by varying the amount of air available to them. The idle circuit contains a fixed jet, and by varying the amount of air through it, the venturi effect pulls less/more fuel depending on the adjustment. This is the done with the idle mixture screw, which only changes the amount of air made available to pull fuel through the idle jet.
In your case, we may be talking something entirely different. Once your sled starts, it idles fine, no? You, and others here, are having starting difficulties, which tell me it needs more fuel in the ENRICHMENT, or cold start mode.
The assortment of sensors in the EFI's, yours will be no different, include an air temp sensor most likely mounted in the airbox, a coolant temperature sensor in the jacket water, and a very important one mounted on the throttle body shaft, the TPS, or Throttle Position Sensor. All of these have fixed parameters, except the TPS. The TPS can dramatically effect the amount of fuel made available to the at the injectors.
The injector is a timed device. Its nothing more than an electric solenoid with a variable poppet valve. Depending on what parameters the aforementioned sensors have given the ECU (the "brain" of the sled), makes the difference where the poppet valve in the injector is located, hence the amount of fuel difference.
You mention in one post about disconnecting the fuel pump electrical feed to keep fuel from flooding the engine. You need to know this:
Unless the engine is cranked, NO fuel will ever feed through the injectors to the motor. Turning on your key only primes the fuel rail and injectors and brings them to regulated pressure. At this point, the system is ready to read information from the sensors to such as cold/hot engine, air temperature, coolant temperature, etc. When the key is turned on, this info is relayed immediatley, then when the engine is cranked, the injector is fired, which sprays the precise amount of fuel the sensors have told it to give.
Every bit of fuel in the injector is shot into the intake at the moment of firing. Its the parameters of the sensors that determine how much is there at that moment.
If Yamaha is allowing an adjustment to the amount of fuel made available to the engine, I don't see how they can do it for one circuit (cold start). I believe, and I certainly can be wrong, the adjustment you had done effects the entire system, so you now have a higher fuel use everywhere. Since you state the system can be altered through the instrument pod, you have not fed it any "input". Reflash of ECU's is usually done with a laptop and software, telling the ECU to change its parameters. I believe that this is the ONLY way to change just one parameter, such as enrichening the cold start circuit, which in your case, you want. You do not need more fuel everywhere else on the powerband!
My opinion, for what its worth.
swmpr1
Extreme
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2006
- Messages
- 82
Sooo...i guess noones actually tried this before, thats good enough reason for me not to start grounding any wires that go to the ecm to get into this diag. mode. Gonna have to live with it not starting when its really cold out. Good thing I still got an arctic cat to depend on...
Irondoghalf
Veteran
GypsyRoots said:
I kinda figured they were allowing the fuel increase throughout the fuel range.
The field available changes Yamaha has allowed the dealers to do are through the touch pad buttons on your instrument pod are just basic. But hey, at least they do have that. Cats in the past, as well as current Polaris Cleanfire systems, do not. You must hook up a computer to do the reflash changes.
Trust me here. One can get into your ECU, remotely with a software program and a laptop. This will allow fine tuning, again in your case, specifically for the enrichment. The beauty is, your overall mileage would be back to where you once were. You would not be running rich on the upper end for no reason.
You say "the computer" is already there on the sled. Every EFI is this way, commonly known as the ECU, or ECM. Sledheads call it "the computer", which is a loose term. Its a pre-programmed electronic control unit.
If this all works for you, great, I hope it does. We'll all know more then.
In the back of your mind, tho, realize that if your sled now starts at -20, heck, -35, that portion alone could have been done by Yamaha only, and your sled would still get 19 mpg.
My next question to Yamaha is if I could send the ECU in and have it reprogrammed for startability in minus temperatures, and that you want to keep everything else the way it is. Sounds like a good off-season thing to do while the warranty is still in effect.
Anxious to know how it starts for now. We're 41 degrees here.
Irondoghalf
Veteran
I don't get the "Mr O" part, but hey..
So glad to hear it starts better already. The feeling rich part will not be so apparent when it gets colder.
Gotta tell ya, I am impressed with Yamaha stepping to the plate for you, keep using youtube if problems persist...I believe that was the biggie!
Polaris dealer here is taking on the Yamaha line next season, so you'll at least have another dealer close. They had Yamahas many years ago, dropped them, now want on board the 4 stroke bandwagon. Excellent tech there by the name of Harvey.
If you get this way for Irondog or Iditarod, we got beer.
Work commences tonight on my sled. Squeaked a piston yesterday afternoon, 3 miles after I filled the tank at Crowleys pumps. First time on this sled, 3800 miles.
Do you know Mike Hoffman? Good friend of mine. Figured you might as he 's a pilot and may work your circle.
Sorry if I came on strong in my posts technically...I am a past Cat Techmaster and certified outboard tech. I've been to several snowmobile and ATV service schools. I now work for the local Utility (17 plus years) wrenching on 5000 horsepower diesels. We are months away from commissioning two new Wartsilla (Finland) 8000 HP units. I also spent 10 years working for the State DOT wrenching on trucks, loaders, dozers, and the like. I build wood stoves as a side hobby.
My big interest in this forum (Phazer), is I am contemplating one for next season. I don't post anywhere else here on TY, but I read everything. I am an information gathering fool...always have been, its my nature.
We have a lot in common with where we choose to live and the challenges that go along with it. Nearly 50 years here for me, born and raised.
Carry on. Really enjoy your posts, pics, and killer videos!
So glad to hear it starts better already. The feeling rich part will not be so apparent when it gets colder.
Gotta tell ya, I am impressed with Yamaha stepping to the plate for you, keep using youtube if problems persist...I believe that was the biggie!
Polaris dealer here is taking on the Yamaha line next season, so you'll at least have another dealer close. They had Yamahas many years ago, dropped them, now want on board the 4 stroke bandwagon. Excellent tech there by the name of Harvey.
If you get this way for Irondog or Iditarod, we got beer.
Work commences tonight on my sled. Squeaked a piston yesterday afternoon, 3 miles after I filled the tank at Crowleys pumps. First time on this sled, 3800 miles.
Do you know Mike Hoffman? Good friend of mine. Figured you might as he 's a pilot and may work your circle.
Sorry if I came on strong in my posts technically...I am a past Cat Techmaster and certified outboard tech. I've been to several snowmobile and ATV service schools. I now work for the local Utility (17 plus years) wrenching on 5000 horsepower diesels. We are months away from commissioning two new Wartsilla (Finland) 8000 HP units. I also spent 10 years working for the State DOT wrenching on trucks, loaders, dozers, and the like. I build wood stoves as a side hobby.
My big interest in this forum (Phazer), is I am contemplating one for next season. I don't post anywhere else here on TY, but I read everything. I am an information gathering fool...always have been, its my nature.
We have a lot in common with where we choose to live and the challenges that go along with it. Nearly 50 years here for me, born and raised.
Carry on. Really enjoy your posts, pics, and killer videos!
Irondoghalf
Veteran
Here ya go, Gypsy. Just what the doctor ordered. Get that sleds fuel management system fine tuned only in the area you need it. $369
Notice its available for the Phazer....coincindence?
The instructions for the Phazer are not online, but for reading reference, click on the instructions for the Arctic Cat M series. Note you can change each and every fuel step, from idle on up.
The reviews of this product are glowing over at Snowest, the mountain riders forum.
http://www.purelogictuning.com/snowmobile.html
Notice its available for the Phazer....coincindence?
The instructions for the Phazer are not online, but for reading reference, click on the instructions for the Arctic Cat M series. Note you can change each and every fuel step, from idle on up.
The reviews of this product are glowing over at Snowest, the mountain riders forum.
http://www.purelogictuning.com/snowmobile.html
Mars
Pro
Interesting find. I see they have a Yamaha Turbo controller as well. 469$
That thing, a turbo, bit of piping, intercooler, some oil lines, hook up the WB02, and you have yourself a turbo kit for under 2000$ CDN.
I put a custom turbo on my car, no reason I can't do one on my sled... next year's gonna be fun.
That thing, a turbo, bit of piping, intercooler, some oil lines, hook up the WB02, and you have yourself a turbo kit for under 2000$ CDN.
I put a custom turbo on my car, no reason I can't do one on my sled... next year's gonna be fun.
Irondoghalf
Veteran
Ya mean like this?
Notice, no "hole"....and be assured this huffer makes heat.
50 more horsepower ought to be a nice addition.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k39/B ... -07011.jpg
Notice, no "hole"....and be assured this huffer makes heat.
50 more horsepower ought to be a nice addition.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k39/B ... -07011.jpg
Mars
Pro
Kinda like that, but who puts a muffler on a Turbo'd vehicle? haha.
