A straight answer

[Convert]

BTW if you look closely it's not just MrSled and the moderators saying they have no problems with the hifax it's also other members here, are they too supposed to just shutup so only those of you having issues can make it seem much worse than it really is?

To be fair, your statement "those of you having issues can make it seem much worse than it really is" would be your opinion. My personal experience is this is a big issue for me.

I can assure you that the level of frustration for those of us who are trying to address the issue of premature slidder wear is significant and real as well as costly.

On a side note, I would certainly give all the moderators the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their choices on thread deletions. It's a tough job and they have done a great job on this site.

Keep up the good work.

Agreed that is my opinion only! my point was should only those having an issue be allowed to post in this thread like some individuals think, or should we be hearing from those that are not having this issue as well. I don't want to coverup anything! if there are problems they need to come out so Yamaha can address them, that is a lot of what this forum is about. I do understand their frustrations I have an 03 that had it's share of issues as well and with the help of others from this site we worked through those issues and Yamaha snatched up some of those idea's and implemented them on the next years models. No they did not go fix every issue on all the 03's. In todays world everything is disposable even sleds you deal with what you have and often times end up resolving your own problems. The norm it seems with Yamaha is it takes a long time to evaluate and come up with a cost effective fix for certain problems. In order to stay in business these days you have to be very careful about spending, thats just the way it is. They have in the past taken care of many issues with the previous years sleds although this Hifax issue is not something I expect to see dealt with because it is pretty hard to prove where the problem is. Why some sleds wear and others do not I don't get either which is pretty much what MrSled said earlier and got jumped all over for. We don't know anymore than you guys but we have found by working WITH eachother we can often time debug and resolve problems long before Yamaha can. (primarily because we have a much larger test audience than they do) Don't give up on posting issues thats good info to mention but at the same time try to figure out why it's happening and don't just complain about it.

Thanks for recognizing how difficult this job can be at times I have spent a couple of hours this morning just trying to explain why we do things the way we do, and thats pretty much just on two threads that i'm currently working on. I have already missed 75 other new posts that if I had the time need to be reviewed to make sure they are still on track.

 

[bagadonitz]

This thread has been cleaned and is now open for discussion.
Understand everyone here is welcome to state their opinion but only once! Please refrain from getting into heated debates and stick to what this site is here for! Helping each other find solutions to problems not simply bitching about them! We are not Yamaha we are just a bunch of sled heads like you that prefer to ride what we think is the best technology out there, in our opinion it's Yamaha you don't like it go elsewhere.

I love how my post was just deleted. This place amazes me. I thought I was making a valid point about how people say do this, do that, etc etc etc when it seems other sled owners have to do nothing but ride.

I found a solution to the problem as well. I replace the damn rail when they wear out. That doesn't mean I have to feel good about it does it?

It seems everyone is entitled to their opinion only once but my once is gone. Fantastic. Great basis for discussion there.

I don't know much about the Nytro but track tension seem's to be the biggest factor on my RX1's too tight i get excessive wear at the bend. To loose it moves to the back of the rails. If i get it just right i get no excessive wear anyplace and no ratcheting. they're good for 2000+ miles However the track is way looser than the Yamaha spec calls for.
Just my 2 cents.
I also believe snow conditions play a very big part in this.

Since my posts were just deleted I'll state it again. I run so loose I ratchet and I still get what I consider is excessive wear when compared to other makes of sleds. 600 miles first set, 500 miles on the second set. Snow conditions certainly do play an obvious role.

No one seems to understand some peoples frustration. A bunch of people report an issue and they get tarred and feathered as being bitchers.

I've been on forums of one variety or another for over ten years. This marks a first for me. Getting posts just wiped out when I'm doing nothing but participating in a discussion about a topic. I'm almost in disbelief that this place is moderated so heavily. I could understand if I was on a rant, swearing, calling everything a piece of crap but all I stated is that it isn't right that you have to add fixes left right and center so that you can get the same slider wear as competitors machines. I expected that stuff to be included for the higher sticker price I paid for this Yamaha yet I have not gotten it on this and other fronts. Of course that just means I have a bad dealer in the eyes of people here and the solution to that is to go to the next one, an extra 250 km on the round trip.

If you don't like it find somewhere else to go! Your post was deleted along with a few others to remove MrSled from this discussion he does not deserve the abuse he gets from some of you guys for simply having an opinion of his own. We are here to try to find solutions like I said this is not a Yamaha owned site if you want to complain to Yamaha call the Yamaha customer support line. Here we look for resolutions which hopefully will show Yamaha their downfalls. To constantly complain does nothing but make our jobs as moderators that much more difficult. We will not allow this site to go the same way so many others have gone and thats basically an uncontrolled free for all. Wise up or go elsewhere.

Here's a good example of a guy finding solutions and not just venting.
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=57691

I was unaware that disagreeing with someone constituted abuse. I have no idea how it was I abused Mr. Sled so to appologize for doing so would be rather empty.

You are 100% correct. Complaining about something here does absolutely nothing to solve the problem. I go to my dealer who is fairly reasonable.

I was under the false impression that this was a discussion forum. There are usually two sides to a discussion. I wanted to discuss one side that finds it odd that sliders wear on one brand while they don't on another in identical conditions.

Some people on this site have the opinion that if something is wrong, spend as much $$ as it takes to fix it. That isn't an option for everyone, myself included. Not that anythign suggested here is exorbantly expensive but the point a few of us boat rockers are trying to make is that there is an issue, that will cost money to rectify, one way or another, despite the fact that some people don't have said issue. That isn't meant to be an insult or grip, just an opinion, bordering on fact in some minds.

As far as track tension, I would like to know what people run it at. I have run mine at what is suggested in the manual, right on through to loose enough to occasionally ratchet. Where in the track tension realm have people found the best wear?

I also wonder where people have their limiters and how it effects wear. I have my front strap pulled up one set of holes, rear is stock. I'm finding the wear to be concentrated ONLY in the 6-8 inches in front of the rear wheels. Would maybe pulling the rear strap one hole even the wear out? Or would I be better off biting the bullet and buying another set of wheels for that location?

 

[bagadonitz]

BTW if you look closely it's not just MrSled and the moderators saying they have no problems with the hifax it's also other members here, are they too supposed to just shutup so only those of you having issues can make it seem much worse than it really is?

To be fair, your statement "those of you having issues can make it seem much worse than it really is" would be your opinion. My personal experience is this is a big issue for me.

I can assure you that the level of frustration for those of us who are trying to address the issue of premature slidder wear is significant and real as well as costly.

On a side note, I would certainly give all the moderators the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their choices on thread deletions. It's a tough job and they have done a great job on this site.

Keep up the good work.

Agreed that is my opinion only! my point was should only those having an issue be allowed to post in this thread like some individuals think, or should we be hearing from those that are not having this issue as well. I don't want to coverup anything! if there are problems they need to come out so Yamaha can address them, that is a lot of what this forum is about. I do understand their frustrations I have an 03 that had it's share of issues as well and with the help of others from this site we worked through those issues and Yamaha snatched up some of those idea's and implemented them on the next years models. No they did not go fix every issue on all the 03's. In todays world everything is disposable even sleds you deal with what you have and often times end up resolving your own problems. The norm it seems with Yamaha is it takes a long time to evaluate and come up with a cost effective fix for certain problems. In order to stay in business these days you have to be very careful about spending, thats just the way it is. They have in the past taken care of many issues with the previous years sleds although this Hifax issue is not something I expect to see dealt with because it is pretty hard to prove where the problem is. Why some sleds wear and others do not I don't get either which is pretty much what MrSled said earlier and got jumped all over for. We don't know anymore than you guys but we have found by working WITH eachother we can often time debug and resolve problems long before Yamaha can. (primarily because we have a much larger test audience than they do) Don't give up on posting issues thats good info to mention but at the same time try to figure out why it's happening and don't just complain about it.

Thanks for recognizing how difficult this job can be at times I have spent a couple of hours this morning just trying to explain why we do things the way we do, and thats pretty much just on two threads that i'm currently working on. I have already missed 75 other new posts that if I had the time need to be reviewed to make sure they are still on track.

I also appreciate the time it takes to moderate a forum. Again, as I feel that I'm being singled out as being one having attacked what Mr. Sled said, I have to disagree with you. It was never my intention to attack anyone, just point out that some people disagree.

Beyond that, I will admit to one thing. To read on here about this sled it would make one turn away from it. Lots of negative. I think it is a symptom of group think and not enough riding. I broke my back in early Feb and didn't get to ride again till last week. I was ready to get rid of my Nytro due to sitting on my rear healing all day, reading and analysing posts.

Last week, I got to put 850km on my sled in 3 days and I was delighted with it. A set of Bergstrom Triple points and ski savers TOTALLY changed the handling and the thing now rails when I'm standing. Still need to balance it a bit for railing while seted. The sled did not leave me stranded. I just wish the sliders would have held up better.

A question? What happens if they do wear out? Is this enough to leave you stranded? I'm not being smart assed, I have just never had this happen and don't know what to do should it happen? Can you nurse it back to civilization or will clips on bare rails destroy the rails and or track?

 

[Convert]

I don't believe wearing out slides would leave you stranded but it for sure would put excessive wear on your rails to the point where they may need repairing or replacing which would suck! I definitely run mine a lot looser than spec and it seems to work for my specific riding style, no two people are exactly alike. What would be a really good experiment is if we could get two Nytro's together one with and one without this problem and run them on the same trails and compare wear, and then look at whats different between the track tension, limiter straps etc... Thats where these TY get togethers really work well, I am sure there is an answer out there we just have to find it!

BTW please don't think you were singled out I deleted all posts that were responses to MrSled it was far to time consuming to edit out all the bits and pieces. If you want to reiterate your thoughts that were in any of these posts please feel free to do so.

 

[mtdream]

well, we need to get this Hyfax issue addressed...I had 120 miles on mine and they were 80% worn through, my buddy who picked up sled at same time I did...had less than 50 miles on his, and his are COMPLETELY worn through!!!!

Both of us got well over 1500 miles on sliders from Doo, this is NOT normal wear...to have to replace your hyfax after every ride? or every third ride for me?

Just an update, did some ski adjustment last ngiht from teh new front end, and my Hifax are COMPLETELY shot...210 miles on odometer...that is NOT a good thing!!!!!!!!

 

[08 FX Nytro lover]

I was a regular on AMSNOW for years and recall moderators addressing assholes who simply picked on and abused other members. I never remember anyone being attacked by a moderator for expressing their negative feelings about the sled itself. This is new to me over here. I think if a moderator wants to chime in on a thread, they should fight fair--not delete the replys because.........they can

not that what I think will matter Im sure

 

[LJ 452]

Just thinking out loud... I don't have a much if any time on other brands but I do know my friends F6 and another's 03 Doo had original hifax for 2 years 4000+ miles. Now there has to be a difference. What I'm wondering is how much transfer is on those sleds. I know I never they really never even lift a ski when they would pin it. That tells me either little transfer or very well balanced. Also track length, is anyone noticing differences of hifax wear that extended their tracks? I know that I had my Apex barely using hifax for the last two years. However it also has more wheels than the FX. But raising up the limiter (Front), reducing transfer, and a loose, buy that I mean lift the rear and the track sag would be about 3/4" without any weight seemed to make a huge difference. I know that the FX's seem to transfer like crazy so is that a contributing factor? Anyone try other brands of hifax? Guys that have other brands of sleds that don't have hifax issues maybe could compare side by side and we could figure out what the issue is. Even different skids, as mentioned M10, A.D., whatever. It definently seems like some have found a setup that provides reasonable life, either intentional or not, lets here what that setup is. That way people can try options and maybe we can get to the bottom of this. I go on a backpack trip every year and at a 1000+ miles I don't want to be concerned with changing hifax mid trip if the conditions are less than perfect.

 

[AKrider]

Bagodonuts,
How many miles are you riding once you install a new set of hyfax? Are the miles continuous or do you make numerous stops? What are the snow conditions you are riding in?

BTW, I agree with what you are saying about the moderation on this site. I actually had a moderator instigate me because I complained about the small gas tank. They then suspended me 3 days because they didn't like to have their attitude thrown back at them. Since that epoisode I post far less than I used to and don't try and help on technical issues as much as I could.

 

[bagadonitz]

The last new set were put on and run in the following way. 2 miles. Stopped 10 minutes. 2 miles. Stopped 10 minutes. Repeat a few times. This was on a groomed trail which was admittedly hard packed after a mild spell and then a couple of cold days. The did not burn during this period that I know of.

The next 825km on them was mostly on farily soft groomed trail that had a lot of loose snow spray. My skid, along with those with me were full of loose snow, with lots of melting snow in there as it wasn't very cold. Of those 825km, I would guess 60km was in 10" deep loose snow/powder.

My riding partners last time out seemed to indicate that they burn regardless of conditions at the beginning of each run after a break. It seems once they are warmed up there is no burning. It is the first few miles that we can smell them usually. I'm attributing this to the fact that they aren't hot enough to melt snow to lubricate until they have been going a bit. This is the main reason I maintain the material used in Yamahas rails (stock first set, supposed graphite the second set but I didn't see any difference) is not up to the task like the white plastic I'm most familiar with on Polaris rails. Thus it seems to me they desperately need liquid lubrication and until they are hot enough to produce it, they wear.

Again, compared to some reports, mine aren't that bad. But they did become an issue last week towards the end of our trip when I had to start wondering if I was going to have to get a rid back with someone and take my truck to go retrieve the sled. Next time I go on a trip for a week that is going to cost me $1000, I'll take another $40 set of hyfax with me for spares (as dealers here can't even stock them for some reason) but I like drinking beer after a long ride, not changing hyfax

 

[Doogs]

Would you guys please drop the discussion on the site's Moderation? That's not what I started this thread for. It ends right here at this post.

Anyway, back on track. My slides wore fairly even (a little more in the rear) until it got to the wear line just in front of the rear wheels. It seemed to stop for a bit after that, just like a lot of you describe. I got probably another 200km before I noticed it was past the wear mark. Lucky for me I didn't lose any riding time because of it.

My track was fairly loose but close to spec. It's hard to balance the Hyfax wear with track ratcheting on this sled. It's either one or the other, at least without any mods.

 

[Tork]

doogs, you are right sir, your thread. But man, some of these guys do not get it and good respectful threads are going to be hard to come by unless some of these attitudes are addressed

I was under the false impression that this was a discussion forum. There are usually two sides to a discussion

Exactly, but what do you do? you knocked my opinion AND personal experiance, and did similar with MrSled.
I fixed my problem with wheels, wear pads and a looser track and over a 3 year period I explained how it didnt cost anything and has in fact saved me money. What did you do??????? You came back with blowing it out of proportions with adding things you dont need to do and making it sound expensive.
So what you are saying IS it is OK for you to post whatever you want but god forbid if people like myself AND the owner of this forum express our opinions..AND solutions!!!!!!!

I was a regular on AMSNOW for years and recall moderators addressing assholes who simply picked on and abused other members. I never remember anyone being attacked by a moderator for expressing their negative feelings about the sled itself. This is new to me over here. I think if a moderator wants to chime in on a thread, they should fight fair--not delete the replys because.........they can

Myself and MrSled are also members first and formost. It is OK to take issue with what we have to say, but damn. nobody better do that to you.

"because at Amsnow"...... If Amsnow is the perfectly run forum for you, please please go over there!!!!!!
Amsnow is a big multi-business corporation, they dont care very much as long as the huge advertising revs are pouring in.
TY is a small stand alone forum, developed, owned and funded by ONE guy. This is his labor of love, most members are his friends. Pure and simple he has the right to delete, what is not helpful, delete what is not respectful, delete what is of no value to the over all great members that are part of the TY family. AND he did none of the deleting here. Unpaid volunteer guys like me did the deletions..making our own judgement call.

Please understand what I am saying here, and lets DO get back on topic.

 

[Convert]

We have a ton of members these days guys, and an awful lot of you know very little about the history of the site or it's owner. It really is a one man show (with a little help from his friends) Tom is a regular guy he works in Wausau at a building supply company doing Computer Aided Design 40-65 hours a week. He does not work for Yamaha in any way. He has earned the respect of Yamaha over the years and has developed relationships with many of the Minoqua area Yamaha people and on occasion gets a few perks like VIP seats at the sled races etc.. When this site becomes nothing but a complaint dept for Yamaha he takes it very personal. It's not Yamaha it's his site that HE setup 10 years ago to help, eachother, and meet other people that had one thing in common, Riding Yamaha Snowmobiles! It was not setup by Yamaha to give the owners of a 1st year sled a place to complain too but it is a good place to bring up issues and find solutions.

Sorry Doogs I'm done and I hope everyone else can let this thread get back on track.

 

[AKrider]

I'm wondering if your problems aren't caused by a lack of snow, but by the quality of the snow? Was the snow very dry and chrystalized? In those conditions, the ice chrystals contain very little moisture and can under lubricate the hyfax. The other thing I was wondering is if you stopped along the way to let them cool down, whcih you did. Hyfax last a lot longer once they've been heat cycled a few times as they become "tempered". New hyfax can actually be worn away much quicker than old, tempered hyfax. Like for instance, you install a new set of hyfax and then ride for 100 miles in bad conditions with few stops.

As a rule, whenever I notice the candlewax smell I either get off in the loose snow on the side of the trail or drag my boots to kick up some snow. I've got my hyfax so hot on occasions that I felt them sticking and trying to slow the sled down. In these instances the worst thing you can do is stop because the hyfax will melt and stick to your track. Much better to try and kick some snowdust in there and then stop.

 

[yamy07]

I re-tightened my track to the loose side of spec at 100 miles. I had an overnight trip planned when I had about 800 miles on my sled, my slides were worn to the line and I didn't want to risk it on the trip - so I changed them out with the old style narrow slides(read somewhere on here that they lasted longer) & about 3/4" of sag with no weight. We rode about 300 miles in 2 days, stopping to kick in snow or going off trail to find some powder dozens of times. It was 25 degrees, my buddy led most of the time & snow conditions were very good. Each time I stopped you could smell the slides melting & see plastic stuck to the track clips.The last 8 inches are worn to the line already. My friend on a 98 XT 500 had no issues - still has original slides on!
My last sled 2000 Sxr 600 with 136 Ripsaw had no problems with slides - I have never had to change slides in the middle of the season before, maybe every 2 or 3 years.
Turk mentioned that his slides wore faster with the track looser - it seemed like mine did also. I saw 08NitroRTX had added an extra set of wheels to the rear 8" of rails on his Iron Dog sleds - has anyone else tried this? Did it help? I'm thinking about trying that, but the wheels & mounts are close to 200 bucks. I'd spend it if I knew it would help.

 

[Tork]

Both really sharp guys, Turk and Yamahnator, they say looser is worse for slide wear. It may work better for me because of the bigger wheels and wear pads. Guys are saying tight or loose, still wearing too fast. That tells me that the closed window unclipped may be the issue and wheels that are too small, or not enough wheels.

Experiment along those lines and you may come up with what nails it.