Another flat land Turbo

[Confused]

a mix of justifications, conjecture, and extrapolations

You seem to do a lot of that too about this new engine that doesn't have detailed public specs and nobody other than the factory has had their mechanical hands on.

 

[ultrazls1]

You haven't been on in weeks but you were on hourly during the whole boost discussion (and then we find out you bought one) and now your back during the doo discussion and your very first post was a mix of justifications, conjecture, and extrapolations about how this new amazing wunderkind machine will beat the winders. I am just wondering when you will admit you ordered one.

btw, I don’t care if they are faster. They can’t outrun the ugly that’s built in. Seriously I don’t mind the brand bashing but let’s stay with the facts. Hcs is where the speculative brand bashing posts are (and belong).

You must be lost cuz I said I had one from the beginning. I haven’t bashed anything and was actually praised by members here for the humble intelligent discussion.

I don’t have one on order. But if I had to choose I might lean toward the skidoo because of the meth injection and typically better build quality. But for now I’m stuck with my boost. It’s not in the cards nor worth it for me to order another 20k sled and or sell/trade mine etc.

I have done no bashing. I guess what set you off is that I surmised the meth injection would open up a lot more power available on pump gas tuning. Which I thought was common knowledge. And not totally agreeing that the 998 is unbeatable. The meth is a great addition to the 2 stroke turbo and should help it be more competitive against the turbo 4 strokes. My bad if that hurts your feelings.

 

[Doc Harley]

I guess the only thing I can't figure out is, why won't the manufacturers let go of the 2s as their flagship powerplant?
I mean, other than cost.
I like the gimmicktry (yes, completely made up) skidoo is offering, to continue to push the envelope. But why not embrace the 4s,
It's 100x more stable and power is easily attainable.
Gas prices now $2pr gallon more then regular (here in Wis) a 250 tune winder can drink 87 all day and let out a belch. Lol. No, I haven't tried it, but will definitely give it a go around next year, just to putz around.

 

[74Nitro]

I guess the only thing I can't figure out is, why won't the manufacturers let go of the 2s as their flagship powerplant?
I mean, other than cost.
I like the gimmicktry (yes, completely made up) skidoo is offering, to continue to push the envelope. But why not embrace the 4s,
It's 100x more stable and power is easily attainable.
Gas prices now $2pr gallon more then regular (here in Wis) a 250 tune winder can drink 87 all day and let out a belch. Lol. No, I haven't tried it, but will definitely give it a go around next year, just to putz around.

Because it's a business and Polaris and Doo are appealing to the younger crowd who thinks it isn't cool to own a vehicle more than two years old or a non-current. So they change the ski stance by a half inch or the head light style and call it a G5 instead of G4. You're not cool if you own a G4 anymore dude....
But then there's the next rider who wants a new one, but can't quite afford it so has to settle for a two or three year sled just out of warranty, and the engine throws a rod, and then Polaris and/or Doo sells a new engine and makes more money.
Oh, and did I mention that these guys finance these machines.
Yamaha took the route of engine longevity except it didn't pan out as they had hoped even though there's really nothing wrong with riding a 6 year old sled, it's more of a mature rider thing, but they seem to be lacking in todays market of instant gratification.

 

[Trailleader]

Ride one and you’ll see
I rode the Tcat on the trail last night and yes I see it can use power steering. It’s a tank and I rode them for years not thinking so. It’s a nice ride though and I would say alot less fun ride unless in a straight line. My opinion. It feels like it pulls well and is loud with stock exhaust in comparison to my boost. Also much colder that the matrix to ride which I had forgotten how my knees freeze on the thing. 6’ 3. The power band of the 2 stroke is completely different. Pull up next to each other and just watch the ‘ugly’ boost shoot ahead like a sling shot. You could try to keep up in the trail with the light two stroke but it is so much quicker and lighter I cannot personally do it.
Pick your poison. If I rode highways for trails I’d have a larger turboed 998 that still need octane bumped. I ride in more woods and tight trails and I choose the 2 stroke

As far as bashing goes there’s as much here as hcs because if it’s not a 998 it’s all garbage. Seeing is not believing because it’s a conspiracy. Lol
Adaptation to new is good. So is thinking for yourself and not hearing something one person says and going with it. ‘Ringer’. Same as listing to a story about breaking a sled to try to passon the trail. Got it done breaking stuff! Lol
I bet the other guys were laughing so hard in their helmets they fell off the sleds. I trail ride my ringer, my kid put 200 miles on yesterday. The only issues had were with the two cats. Btw. They all break down.
The skidoo and poo and cat are all good sleds. The navigation in the poo is awesome and I wouldn’t ride without it also what everyone said yesterday with is that rode it.
I’ll ride anything just to enjoy snowmobiling

Why did you buy a sidewinder 74? The rx1 would run still today!!!

 

[earthling]

You seem to do a lot of that too about this new engine that doesn't have detailed public specs and nobody other than the factory has had their mechanical hands on.

Much has been published. The engine is the same as the mountain model. It’s been available for a year and I know how to read through marketing statements.

 

[Trailleader]

What size is the turbo?
Did they change anything on the pipe? The stinger the same? Are the port heights the same as the mountain version?
Why do they need meth injection after 12 seconds?
If the setting is at 12 seconds can’t you adjust that in the ecu mapping?

 

[74Nitro]

Ride one and you’ll see
I rode the Tcat on the trail last night and yes I see it can use power steering. It’s a tank and I rode them for years not thinking so. It’s a nice ride though and I would say alot less fun ride unless in a straight line. My opinion. It feels like it pulls well and is loud with stock exhaust in comparison to my boost. Also much colder that the matrix to ride which I had forgotten how my knees freeze on the thing. 6’ 3. The power band of the 2 stroke is completely different. Pull up next to each other and just watch the ‘ugly’ boost shoot ahead like a sling shot. You could try to keep up in the trail with the light two stroke but it is so much quicker and lighter I cannot personally do it.
Pick your poison. If I rode highways for trails I’d have a larger turboed 998 that still need octane bumped. I ride in more woods and tight trails and I choose the 2 stroke

As far as bashing goes there’s as much here as hcs because if it’s not a 998 it’s all garbage. Seeing is not believing because it’s a conspiracy. Lol
Adaptation to new is good. So is thinking for yourself and not hearing something one person says and going with it. ‘Ringer’. Same as listing to a story about breaking a sled to try to passon the trail. Got it done breaking stuff! Lol
I bet the other guys were laughing so hard in their helmets they fell off the sleds. I trail ride my ringer, my kid put 200 miles on yesterday. The only issues had were with the two cats. Btw. They all break down.
The skidoo and poo and cat are all good sleds. The navigation in the poo is awesome and I wouldn’t ride without it also what everyone said yesterday with is that rode it.
I’ll ride anything just to enjoy snowmobiling

Why did you buy a sidewinder 74? The rx1 would run still today!!!

Never owned and Rx-1 or Apex. Rode an 08 Nytro right up to 2017 that I bought in Ohio off ebay back in 2009(used).

The area I live in is open farmland with only small amounts of bush riding here and there. High speed type trails where 850's really can't keep up. When we ride, we ride all day with multiple fuel stops. Nobody carries fuel additives of any sort, nor do they want to. When I go north to ride, it's Northern Ontario where the trails are even faster than here. Look at my picture.

I will admit that if I lived in an area with tighter bush trails that the lighter 850 may be a more preferable sled. However, I haven't yet rode a power steering winder so I may retract that statement after I do.

Again, I have zero desire to ever ride a two stroke again. I rode them all my life up to when I bought the Nytro. I instantly fell in love with the four stroke engine.

 

[Confused]

Much has been published. The engine is the same as the mountain model. It’s been available for a year and I know how to read through marketing statements.

lol more conjecture. I'm glad you think so highly of yourself, I bet you're fun at parties.

 

[Doc Harley]

I jumped on the XP bandwagon in '09 cuz they spec'd the 800cc @ 399lbs. So I get lite weight.
Today's 850's are now in the 500lb range.
Agree with you, trailleader, I tried to run with the younger crowd running 2s last year. Got about 10 turns in the tight stuff & let them pass. Lol.
Combination of age, weight (sled) & drive, to continue to ride in that manner is not for me anymore.
Just happy to be riding.

 

[Trailleader]

I like to just ride too
I’ll ride any of them and they all are fun
74 I just asked because they are changing things in the new sleds that aren’t all seen
Lots of improvements and the sidewinder is a great sled
The power steering is awesome all I know have said who ride it and it’s guys who ride everything
I just think they can up the game with some catalyst added with some big power

 

[74Nitro]

One thing I will certainly admit is that the development team at Yamaha had, IMO, done a poor job over the time frame from 2003 through 2016, too slow in improving their lineup when it came to the chassis. Engine packages were good.
Polaris, and especially Doo advanced at a faster pace.

 

[Trailleader]

I hope this catalyst is a home run
The poo matrix has a lot of procross in it
Imo
The catalyst design looks awesome
Let’s hope for the 4 stroke turbo to maintain because if they offered a 2 and a four stroke turbo they got everything covered for guys that want that hp

 

[earthling]

What size is the turbo?
Did they change anything on the pipe? The stinger the same? Are the port heights the same as the mountain version?
Why do they need meth injection after 12 seconds?
If the setting is at 12 seconds can’t you adjust that in the ecu mapping?

Heat build up. The meth injection is there to keep deto at bay. The parameters they gave are 12 seconds in delay at WOT or up to 1000kms in 'normal' operation. Think about managing that window of operation. The simple way to do it is to limit the parameters to some threshold (heat) and not manifold pressure because the manifold pressure doesn't directly mean instantaneous heat. The marketing term from Skidoo is XPS ICE (intake cooling enhancer). Its there to prevent heat build up, to do that, you only need a fixed system and to vary the number of fixed pulses. Very clean and simple. This is all based on information that doo themselves have provided. Its in the information they shared with the trade magazines, its in the video, its in the name of the system. Doo would leverage every ounce of marketable potential there is, and if it had anything to do with power it would be called XPS Power Shot or because its doo marketing XPS Ultra Power Shot or something.

For those same manufacturing reasons, it is highly likely its the same motor with slightly different tuning for trail. I would not expect that doo split their production line for one sub model, manufacturers hate doing that. Especially when they already have active production lines for the mountain version. Again, conjecture but not without the understanding of how product management, manufacturing, and engineering goals are established in a high volume production line. How do you know that skidoo hasn't locked the ECU down specifically for this version specifically for warranty purposes, it only requires a bit setting in the software and a generated key.. it wouldn't be hard for them to do that and I am NOT saying that they did but speculation works both ways. In any case, my point wasn't about the engine or sled performance, the above is what doo stated and I was pointing out. The point, and my only point (and not to you), was why come onto a 4s, brand specific forum to start making claims about what the mxz will do (in the same fashion he did about the boost) when all we have seen is an advertisement. How many pages were wasted on the boost discussion? Ultimately some good information came out of it, mostly from you BTW but there were a lot of HCS style pages in there as well.

I regret my previous comments in this thread, not due to what I said about the doo, I stand by that and if I am wrong it won't be the first or last time, but because I succeeded in exactly what I would really hate to see happen in this forum which is to dilute the quality of discussion.

 

[SumpBuster]

Guy got an early order prototype. I smoked him....
View attachment 171743

Id need a lot of pepto bismol to ride those cockroach wannabees...the blue sled looks AWESOME!!!
LOL!!