Anybody messed with water/methanol injection on their sled?

[TurboVector]

I've been looking at this as a safe way to temporarily increase boost for short periods of time.

 

[summitking]

sled

Ask freak he used it and he had nos to . i saw his setup to its fuggen fast.

 

[dirkdiggler]

Re: Anybody messed with water/methanol injection on their sl

I've been looking at this as a safe way to temporarily increase boost for short periods of time.

Call Fred and Bob At lightningpro. They use it on there sleds.

231-632-6669 Bob's number

 

[sledheadgeorge]

I would be interested in this topic as well. Any info would be great.

 

[adirondac blue]

Hey jason, give us the scoop on alcohol.

 

[snowy1]

I talked to freak at fairview and he said it slowed him down, depends on what your set up is, he said to get any gains out of it you would have to advance timing maybe more compression, with the low comp. pistons and stock timing he cooled the charge to much losing hp. might work with stock compression and allow high boost on pump fuel, I would talk to him and he should be able to get you headed in the right direction, with strait vp110 low comp. pistons you can run alot of boost and nos no problems.

 

[4strokes are better than2]

how big is the syste m & how hard is it to get it to work good enough to use for everyday riding

 

[nitrousmudbogger]

Its easy.can be built for cheap.Would be very good for system with out intercooler or small turbo and bigger boost than normal.I can see the problem with alky and nitrous at the same time because they both cool the charge so may get a over cooling affect and cause problems with your fuel atomization.Lots of how to ways on making one on the web.

 

[monker]

I can see the problems using both alky and nos can produce, but which of the two would be a better cooling agent? I'm guessing the nos since you get more power from it as well. Opinions?

 

[pro116]

Snowy your right on high compression and advanceing the timing.My buddy has a car that he runs alchol in it.

 

[nitrousmudbogger]

Nitrous is a much bigger cooling affect.But lots of poeple run alky to get more octain also meaning higher boost.Very affective in suppressing detonation.

 

[nitrousmudbogger]

Just get a jug of windshield washer fluid.cheap and pre mixed

 

[sledheadgeorge]

Here is an interesting link on water injection

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html

 

[dirkdiggler]

Hey jason, give us the scoop on alcohol.

What are the benefits of Water/Methanol injection?

Boost Cooler® Benefits (Gasoline):

1. Low cost - where else can you get up to 60HP for $299.
2. More power than other means of detonation control.
3. Efficiency - leaner air fuel ratio can be utilized for normal operation.
4. Greatly increases air charge densities for huge horsepower increases.


2. Do I need an Intercooler with Water/Methanol injection?

Up to approximately 20 psi boost, water/methanol injection will provide all the density increase/detonation control needed in most applications. Of course, Intercooling and water/methanol injection would provide even greater benefits especially beyond 20 psi boost. Most air-to-air intercoolers are only 50-65% efficient. That means for example, that with 11psi boost and its 120°f air charge temperature increase, an intercooler reduces the air charge temperature only 60 degrees. Also, an intercooler will reduce boost 2 - 4 psi. on average.


3. Why not use a windshield washer pump?

Water/Methanol must be injected at above 50psi to properly atomize. Lower than 50psi causes greatly reduced air charge cooling as the result of larger droplets and their reduced total surface area.


4. Why methanol?

Methanol is a high octane fuel that is extremely resistant to detonation with an excellent cost/benefit ratio. ($1.50 - $2.00 per gallon.) Its high latent heat of vaporization also makes it an excellent air charge cooler which means a denser mixture and more horsepower. Because of these facts, it is a better anti-detonant than ethanol or iso-propanol although they will work in a pinch. It has however only about 60% of the energy content of gasoline by volume so about twice as much is used to make similar power if used as a straight fuel. It is extremely toxic and should be handled with rubber gloves in well ventilated areas only. Care should be taken to avoid skin contact.


5. How much Water/Methanol?

To prevent detonation, the ratio of Water/Methanol to gasoline is roughly 1 to 5 in gasoline applications- 1 to 4 in diesel. In practice, you give it as much water / methanol as it takes to eliminate detonation without quenching combustion. The amount depends on the onset RPM of injection, the octane of the gasoline, fuel/air ratio, cylinder head type, even the weather conditions. Your engine is actually pretty tolerant of extra water vapor, you will know it's too much when the engine misses and loses power.


6. Where can I purchase Methanol?

Methanol can generally be purchased where racing fuels are sold. Also, most gas line dryers like "Heat" are simply Methanol. Suppliers of industrial chemicals can also supply Methanol usually at a higher price than fuel suppliers. If all else fails, most windshield washer fluids are up to 40% Methanol and 58% water. Methanol can be purchased on the web at www.worldwideracingfuels.com and hiperfuels.com.


7. How long will a tank (2 qts.) last?

In high boost/high horsepower application, a full blast 1/4 mile run will utilize as much as 1/8 tank. A larger tank should be considered if over 9psi boost is utilized in road racing where a tank can be used in as few as 6 - 2 mile/ full tilt laps. Under normal street use in a 400 HP Mustang, a tank usually lasts about 500 miles. Two reservoirs can be used for 1-gal total capacity if desired. Turbo diesels use more qty. and usually utilize the existing windshield washer reservoir (over 4 qts. in most cases) or the new 8-gal reservoir upgrade. More will always be used when the system is first installed, less when the novelty wears off.


8. Can I use windshield washer fluid?

Although most contain some glycol and detergent, most windshield washer fluids are up to 50% alcohol (methanol, ethanol, isopropanol) and make an excellent Boost Cooler®. Try to find one that indicates "contains methanol".


9. At what boost level do I introduce Water/Methanol?

Centrifugal superchargers/large turbos: Generally, at 50% of peak boost the recommended quantity should be introduced. Positive displacement superchargers/ fast spooling turbos: injection should occur at or near peak boost to avoid combustion quench since peak boost occurs so fast.


10. What ratio of Water/Methanol is recommended?

A 50/50 ratio is recommended. This has been demonstrated to be the best for charge/air cooling, excellent detonation control, and controlling cylinder temperature. This includes diesel applications where water conditions the combustion of the methanol so combustion timing isn't affected.


11. Many recommend Denso Iridium spark plugs in boosted applications. Will these work also with water/methanol injection?

Denso Iridium spark plugs are highly recommended with the Boost Cooler®. Iridiums, with their low firing thresholds and intense spark, allow for larger quantities to be injected sooner without misfiring. This allows for more cooling of the intake air. If you have a misfiring problem, nine times out of ten, Iridiums will clear it up.


12. Will water/methanol harm my engine?

In theory, at recommended quantities, most of the mixture is evaporated before it hits the combustion chamber. Also, injection only takes place at high boost levels minimizing cylinder wash concerns. Engines that have been torn down after two years of water/methanol usage have shown no wear issues only clean combustion chambers. In fact, water/methanol reduces the probability of engine destroying detonation. Think of it as an insurance policy against detonation.


13. Can the Boost Cooler® be applied to naturally aspirated and nitrous engines?

1.Naturally aspirated/high compression engines:

In this application, water/methanol injection allows the use of pump fuel in all but the most extreme situations which effects tremendous cost savings as well as horsepower increases due to air density increase and realized timing potential. The system is activated by a throttle switch so that injection takes place only during high engine loads when needed.

2. NOS engines: With NOS, water/methanol injection allows the use of full timing even with large (250HP+) quantities. Injection is controlled by the same means that controls NOS injection.

3. Naturally aspirated/stock compression: With naturally aspirated engines with less than 10:1 compression, water/methanol is used typically in warm climates to get the intake temps back to 60°f. Benefits include: 10-15 HP increases from air density increases and full timing, Increased gas mileage, and carbon free combustion chambers. Activation is by a throttle switch adjusted for onset engine load. With this application, the nozzle is sized so that no more than 10% of total fuel consumption at peak flywheel HP is injected.


14. Why is Water/Methanol injection so effective on Diesels?

Unlike gasoline engines, the power in a turbo diesel is largely a function of fuel. The problem with continually adding fuel is that you reach a point where the exhaust gas temperatures become prohibitive (over 1500 degrees F). A 50/50% Methanol/Water mix will decrease EGT's approximately 250°+ while increasing power 70-100HP.

Power is increased through:

a. Intake charge cooling - Water/methanol will lower air charge temps over 200°f in this application.
b. Methanol - this acts as a fuel as well as cooling the intake charge.

Where else can you get this kind of power with cooler EGT's!


15. Is this technology new with Turbo Diesel?

Water/methanol injection has been used extensively for years in high performance truck/tractor pullers. With the elevated boost levels required for peak power, water/methanol is a common means of cooling the intake charge and reducing exhaust gas temps. Also, truckers have used water injection for years to increase fuel mileage.

 

[rxrider]

WOW - Thanks for sharing the details on deto control/alky fuels.