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Apex clutch on Sidewinder


I went up to 22-41 and it actually felt faster , I will be buying a 38 bottom tooth to try what I had in my apex 22-38 gearing which work good for everything.
 
Mototown said:
View attachment 147881 View attachment 147882
From the 2017 update book with all the new sidewinder changes
Click to expand...

I know, thats it and what I recall seeing as well, but how is it happening with same angles, same belt and same dia it shifts to on the primary? Doesn't add up. Only way to get more OD is shift belt up the primary higher or further into the secondary, or use a wider belt. How does that happen with same angles, same belt and belt rides to the same dia on the primaries?

A wider belt by .020" in same length will provide a 2% higher OD as shown by Racepac computer jackshaft and engine speed.

Typically as had been said, is best speed is had staying out of OD. Well unless your drag racing and run em right outta gear thru OD and picking revs before the finish line. Most all trail sleds are geared to stay out of OD, but with the power of the turbos its easy to slip the belt in the primary down low on the holeshot with high gearing and good traction, high gearing is harder on belts also so what do you do? Find a clutch setup to bite the belt harder!
 
Yup, biting belt harder down low works until belt gets pulled in 2. LOL
 
Turboflash said:
Yup, biting belt harder down low works until belt gets pulled in 2. LOL
Click to expand...

No way are we pulling them in two with the little bit of power these things are making. From shock loads perhaps on a poor offset, but not the trail power were making on proper offset. I see lots of people think it the power, and it may be with improper offset and not pulling straight on the belt.
 
KnappAttack said:
No way are we pulling them in two with the little bit of power these things are making. From shock loads perhaps on a poor offset, but not the trail power were making on proper offset. I see lots of people think it the power, and it may be with improper offset and not pulling straight on the belt.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more...I put together a 22psi boost Super Charged Apex[300+++hp] a few years back that has had zero issues with belts since it was assembled. Stock Apex primary, Team secondary. Never any signs of belt damage or even excessive heat.
Its all in the setup...by the way the secondary clutch is allowed to freely float on this sled to find its own alignment.
 
Is OEM-recommended offset correct? Ie. if I use the "official" tool, is that correct? Or, would you recommend something else? See pic.
 

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  • ZR9000 clutch alignment tool.jpg
    ZR9000 clutch alignment tool.jpg
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sideshowBob said:
Couldn't agree more...I put together a 22psi boost Super Charged Apex[300+++hp] a few years back that has had zero issues with belts since it was assembled. Stock Apex primary, Team secondary. Never any signs of belt damage or even excessive heat.
Its all in the setup...by the way the secondary clutch is allowed to freely float on this sled to find its own alignment.
Click to expand...


Yes, however the four-cylinder is much easier on belts because of its cushioned gear reduction for the clutch shaft also. Three cylinder four-strokes introduce some awful harmonics, especially when you keep lightning up the crank trying to get it to rev quicker. What we need is a bigger turboed, gear reduced four-cylinder like the Apex engine back in the lineup!
 
KnappAttack said:
Yes, however the four-cylinder is much easier on belts because of its cushioned gear reduction for the clutch shaft also. Three cylinder four-strokes introduce some awful harmonics, especially when you keep lightning up the crank trying to get it to rev quicker. What we need is a bigger turboed, gear reduced four-cylinder like the Apex engine back in the lineup!
Click to expand...

:) Isn't that the truth!
 
sideshowBob said:
I am going to install a new Apex clutch with no overdrive on my new Sidewinder for a few reasons:

1] The Apex clutch has set screws on roller pins to help keep it a little quieter.

2] The Sidewinder 10% overdrive clutch creates a belt speed of 9700 RPM at full shift and engine RPM of 8800,
as a comparison, an Apex with stock clutching and engine RPM of 10800 only has a belt speed of 8800 RPM.
A belt speed of 9700 for any length of time destroys belts, even 8DNs, lower belt speed is one reason you can run an Apex wide open for miles with no belt issues. The 850 Ski Doos have a 15-17% overdrive and also are very hard on belts, even with their lower engine rpm.

3] Higher belt speeds create excessive heat and rob horsepower

4] Apex primary clutches have been proven to be very durable and reliable in boosted sleds well in excess of 300hp, so they are the perfect clutch for our Sidewinders

5] Lastly...I have 20+ years of collecting springs, weights, tools, spare clutches and parts for these Yamaha primaries so I have motivation to keep using them

I will be installing the Apex primary with NO overdrive, floating the secondary, and just gearing my sled up to regain my top speed while maintaining no more then a 1:1 shift ratio just like I have been doing on all my Yamaha sleds for decades.

JM.02c
Click to expand...
Can't wait for some feedback on this , are you going to have a chance to try this this year?
 
sideshowBob said:
2] The Sidewinder 10% overdrive clutch creates a belt speed of 9700 RPM at full shift and engine RPM of 8800,
as a comparison, an Apex with stock clutching and engine RPM of 10800 only has a belt speed of 8800 RPM.
A belt speed of 9700 for any length of time destroys belts, even 8DNs, lower belt speed is one reason you can run an Apex wide open for miles with no belt issues. The 850 Ski Doos have a 15-17% overdrive and also are very hard on belts, even with their lower engine rpm.

JM.02c
Click to expand...


Just to set the record straight on this. The belt speed goes up with OD for sure yes, but in OD its the jackshaft speed that is turning faster than the crankshaft, not the belt.

Belts are not shafts that are measured in RPM, but belt speed gets higher as you gear them down, and gets lower as you gear them higher.

So if the engine is turning 8800, and at a 10% OD, the jackshaft would then turn 9680 as it runs completely out of gear. When drag racing heavy sleds, I gear em in the basement, let them run out of gear completely and pick RPM a whole lot before the finish line, even on the two strokes, power band be dammed. Trail sleds is a little different, generally you want to keep them out of OD just like a speed run sled.

Many people want more OD and I have never understood the reason because it is inefficient when trying to run in it. The only advantage would be a wider ratio from top to bottom which I have also found no gain. If anything, it would be better to run a lower ratio in the clutches than trying to go up in ratio in high gear or OD. So think longer wider belts that will start in a lower gear to start with and gear higher in the chaincase. OD sucks power away for sure.
 
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