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APEX " Y " PIPES BREAKING & UNAVAILABLE

Unbelievable! The more I read about Yamaha and their lack of acknowledging problems, refusing warranty issues, extremely slow response times and back ordering, the more likely I'm going to buy from another manufacturer. I pretty much guarantee that my next sled will not be a Yamaha.

But they pride themselves on reliability? :dunno: :drink:
 

I've got over 6,000 miles on my 06 GT with no exhaust leaks yet!!! [knock on wood]. Maybe it's because I have less back pressure with a gutted muffler??? ;)!
 
You know what? It's amazing, I was over at the doo site and the xp guy's are buying nytros next year because thier fed up. I suppose if i go to the pol site thier jumping ship ,and cat and so on... Take it for what's it's worth,they all have flaws,and none of them are perfect.
 
bufalobob said:
NEWS FLASH: YAMAHA HAS BACK ORDER ON " Y " PIPES FOR APEX UNTIL END OF JULY. THIS KEEPS BEING PUSHED FORWARD DAILY!!
yamaha retail for both " Y " pipes & donuts is $654.18 & still titaniom ( may break again ).
bender retail for both " Y " & donuts is $499. & made from stainless ( won't ever break ).

bob
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$499 for Benders pipes also includes donuts?
 
NEWS FLASH. BENDER " Y " PIPES NOW AVAILABLE IN TWO VERSIONS: AKQD STEEL $399 & STAINLESS $499 ( BOTH INCLUDE DONUTS ). SHIPPING STARTS WED. MARCH 12.

bob
 
kviper said:
ReX, As i said that is my opinion based on the six Apex's that i ride with regularly. Before you take the clamp's apart just push on them and see if you can turn the clamp's, If not they are tight and probably good to go. In our group all of the original exhaust lasted the longest and some have not had a problem yet so why is that? I think geting the clamp's tight in the way they need to be is critical as to how long they last I know Yamaha is looking in to a repair (weld new end's on) so they are not telling us to stuff it. It takes a lot of time to R&D this type of stuff. Your friend's have been luckey with there Cat's and Doo's. One friend with Doo's had ring's gone just after warranty, He was on his own. Doo had this problem for several year's. Another friend with two F Cat's had neck's on the gas tank's gone and Cat was out of tank's because of the wide spread problem not to mention the rest of the problem's they had. He had one of the tank's fixed and Cat told him his complete warranty on that sled was void, He now has an Apex and loves it. In my case the exhaust has been leaking for about 1,000 mi now. I had time the other day so i took it apart to see what was going on. One clamp was loose and the donut was loose as well so i did what i could to snug it up and i will ride it till the end of the season. They know there is a problem and i know they are working on it. These kind of thing's happen to all MFG'S and from my experiences Yamaha has been very good about standing behind there product's. Take it for what it is worth. Even with the exhaust leak this is by far the best most fun sled i have owned or ridden and i will buy a nother one if they don't come out with somthing i like better. kviper
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The point is we know with absolute certainty that the donuts are failing with heat and mileage. Some of us also suspect that they might be failing faster with bumps/vibration from rough trails. Even here, on the Internet, the leaks are forming on sleds with typically around 4000 miles. I have yet to hear of any donuts leaking at say 1000 miles.

When these sleds get into the 4000-5000 mile range and have been ridden relatively hard, consistently we have seen posts from individuals who have suddenly started to have exhaust leaks at the donuts.

On top of that, as long as new donuts are installed with the clamps tight, we are also not hearing of anyone having "new" exhaust leaks until a good 3000-6000 miles again.

Basically every single piece of evidence suggests that if you've got 4000-6000 miles on your sled and you want to go on a 2000+ mile trip without an exhaust problem that you are better off to change them now. If you do, you should be good to go without any exhaust leaks.

To top it off, most of the guys needing y-pipes have been riding for quite a while with leaking donuts. I'm not saying all, but I do know that if you keep riding with the donuts leaking that you are more likely to require y-pipes. I have personally seen on 3 occasions where the rattling donuts clamps have worn right through the y-pipes from being run with burnt out donuts. Had those been changed earlier (ideally before the donuts totally failed), the y-pipes would still be fine.

Why didn't you install new donuts when you were in there? You are much more likely to need pipes if you keep riding it.

As far as being lucky with Cats, Doos and Poos, I wouldn't say that. In the past we've had our share of engine failures, a couple of chaincase failures, Cats with cracked bulk heads (late 90's), etc. Since everyone I know is now on Skidoos, I can't really talk about the recent Cats, but as far as Skidoos go, the durability has been getting much better over the past 4 years - especially the engine durability. No-one I know has had a Skidoo engine failure since 2003. In 2003 and prior it was common to go through an engine per season. I do also know of a couple of 04s that had ring "upgrades" for free, but they were still running fine at the time.

Personally I (now) consider the 2008 REV-XPs to be excellent all around sleds. Suspension wise the REV-XP MXZ X is the best available by far (although my revalved and reinforced Apex RTX skid is now on par with a stock MXZ X, IMO). They do stink; they do vibrate; they do smoke; they do burn tons of oil and they do require mid or premium fuel if you want them to run properly. If you can handle all of that, they do make for excellent sleds.

I agree with you that all sleds do have their weaknesses. With the current REV-XPs, the drive shafts break, the brake pads can sometimes get pushed back by the anti-rattle clip, the coolant and oil lines can wear through from vibration (if they were cut to long at the factory), etc. The weaknesses with the Apex include chaincase leaks, exhaust donuts, y-pipes, radiators, skid shock absorbers, skid pivot arms, slide rails, idler wheels, seizing up steering bushings, etc. Over the past 4 years, the guys I ride with have consistently had more failures and maintenance required with their Yamaha sleds when compared to Skidoos. All of the sleds are being ridden on the same trails and conditions and all are getting reasonably high mileage (with the Skidoos having the most miles put on too - over 7000 miles on one REV-XP so far and almost 4000 miles on another).

Personally I can't stand the stink, smoke, vibration, oil consumption, etc. that comes with a 2-stroke REV. Since Yamaha makes the best 4-strokes - I'll be riding a Yamaha.
 
sj said:
good post as to the xp....you forgot premature belt wear/failures!
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True enough. They've all had to change their first belt within 1000 miles and every 3000 miles after that (belts were starting to fall apart). The REV-XP belts cost something like $150 also.

I just changed the belt on my 07 RTX at close to 6000 miles and it still looked like it had many miles left on it.
 
ReX said:
sj said:
good post as to the xp....you forgot premature belt wear/failures!
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True enough. They've all had to change their first belt within 1000 miles and every 3000 miles after that (belts were starting to fall apart). The REV-XP belts cost something like $150 also.

I just changed the belt on my 07 RTX at close to 6000 miles and it still looked like it had many miles left on it.
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Wow! I am lucky to get 2,000 miles out of my belts. Way less once the primary gets some miles on it and starts to wear the sheaves. I just checked my sheaves last night after 4,500 miles on new sheaves they are pretty worn again.
 
Well, look at all the miles you guys put on these 4-strokes.
I remember when I was totally amazed when i'd get 4000 miles on my 2 stroke without a rebuild on the engine and a chassis overhaul. They were SO hammered by then from WNY trails.
 
Rex, I did not replace the donut's because there are none available. My Y pipe's look good with only slight wear from vibe's after 1,000 Mi of being loose so i am willing to take the chance and not loose any riding time from the small amount of season we have left. You also forgot nearly all of the DooXP hot grip's failed and are on back order or at least were, The measly two rear axel wheel's were breaking if ridden hard, The 800R has a hard time breaking 100MPH. Some of my thought's are based on hundred's of Apex's that Yamaha has evaluated with this exhaust problem but hay sound's like you have it all figured out. Good luck.
 
kviper said:
Rex, I did not replace the donut's because there are none available. My Y pipe's look good with only slight wear from vibe's after 1,000 Mi of being loose so i am willing to take the chance and not loose any riding time from the small amount of season we have left. You also forgot nearly all of the DooXP hot grip's failed and are on back order or at least were, The measly two rear axel wheel's were breaking if ridden hard, The 800R has a hard time breaking 100MPH. Some of my thought's are based on hundred's of Apex's that Yamaha has evaluated with this exhaust problem but hay sound's like you have it all figured out. Good luck.
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If I couldn't get exhaust donuts, I agree with you - I'd keep riding my sled too. Let us know how it works out when you get the new donuts and try to install them with the worn pipes. As a minimum you'll have to grind the clamp spacers down a lot. I think I might have 2 new exhaust donuts in my garage if you need some - I'm not sure though (I offered them to a buddy, but I'm not sure if he picked them up). These days I try to pick up some of the parts I think I might need before the season really starts so I picked up a couple of sets in December.

As far as REV-XPs all breaking down and having no hot grips, the 2 REV-XP's I ride with regularly (one with over 7000 miles and the other with almost 4000 miles) plus another guy with a REV-XP I sometimes ride with, all have no problem with their hotgrips nor rear axle wheels (although they did install the "3rd wheel kit"). The 7000 mile REV-XP did just break the drive axle though. I also wouldn't be surprised if they did have some back ordered parts considering how many sleds BRP sold and the fact that this is the first year in production. Keep in mind the Apex is in its 3rd year and the donuts were failing regularly even in 05. If I knew enough to purchase 8 donuts before the season started, Yamaha should have been able to predict the demand for donuts and y-pipes if they really wanted to. Yamaha was also out of y-pipes by the end of December.

Also, until yesterday the two 800Rs always out accelerated me through mid-range, stayed ahead all the way to top speed and stayed that way or very slowly kept pulling away on top. All of our sleds have stock clutching and motors. It was slightly above freezing yesterday and I could finally out accelerate the REV-XP MXZ X, but not by much. I don't know how top speed would have compared that day.

I really don't understand where all of these "REV-XPs keep blowing up, REV-XPs are junk, REV-XPs are slow, etc." stories keep coming from. For the first year in production they really haven't been that bad.

My take is both the REV-XP 800R MXZ and the Apex are great sleds. They are both fast, both are get decent fuel economy, and most importantly both are a total blast to ride. They both have their share of problems and right now the REVs are more reliable, at least for aggressive riders. Of course the Apex, by far, has the nicest motor.

My 07 Apex RTX is a fantastic sled and my favorite sled available anywhere (now that I've revalved the skid), but I can't knock anyone for riding a REV-XP. Other than the stink, smoke, oil consumption, and vibration they are fine sleds (and we all rode 2-smokes for years - almost 30 years for me). Stock to stock, the biggest advantage for a REV-XP is the suspension rides a ton better than the Apex - especially when the trails get beat up and at least as importantly, the REV-XPs suspensions don't break when ridden hard.

Lets face it, Yamaha needs to work hard at perfecting their sleds because of the REV-XP. For us sledders, this is a good thing since even if we were to blindly stick with Yamaha, we can be certain they will keep improving to keep in the game. Hopefully they'll come out with updated y-pipes and donuts for our "old" sleds too.
 
Rex,I just noticed a message on my answering machine from my dealer that said my donut's and gasket should be here in about a week direct from Japan so i should be fine, Thanks any way. kviper
 
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