ARE YOU READY!!!

[biffdotorg]

I was thinking the same thing. Just need Jimmy Blaze there to see his reaction to Yamaha uncovering the sled. When the Phazer was released, I thought it was going to be an awesome and fun sled to run the trails and off trail, unfortunately weak handling and lack of updates kind of killed sales over time. The riding position exuded the look of a motorcross bike. If Yamaha had spent more time updating it over the years, ie. more power, better handling, etc., then they could have had a real success.

Dare we dream to have a new Split-personality Johnny Skeptical video showing the benefits of the new Yamaha 2-stroke sled on one hand, and the 4-stroke on the other! Good humor. Maybe a split personality Bunny as well. The honest clean bunny from the previous vids and a dirty-girl bunny on the other! WOO WOO!

 

[Smokum]

I think you make a good point here. Is it more responsible of an OEM to offer moderate, stable, power and allow the power users to boost it if they so desire? Let's be realistic with what we are asking for from Yamaha. As much as I love my Apex and it's stock power, for as many that want more power, there are twice as many that it is too much power. (I bite my tongue saying that) but putting out a monster engine that is not stable, or may show a hint of unreliability is just not responsible. To top that, it may not be responsible putting that power in the hands of average buyers. Think of how many folks have asked to ride your Apex and you just sat back and said, nah, maybe another time.

Please flame away, but here is the best analogy. Dodge selling the Charger with the Hellcat motor. $65K list. How many idiots can scratch up $65k that should not be driving 700hp. TONS OF IDIOTS!!

There are plenty of sled idiots that should not be buying a 200hp sled as well. Many will not if it is not offered by the OEM as they have no clue how to boost a sled. Maybe I am making a gross generalization, but I think Yamaha had the right idea by offering a factory approved, third party boost option as they have. And maybe they were testing the waters before offering an MPI equipped turbo from the factory. I am still watching how the 2016 Vipers with Turbo debacle pans out. As I still smell guinea pig.

Again, I am open to flaming, as I will never turn away more power. Let's be honest, it's not that we want a ton of power, we just want a little more than the guys we ride with. Call me an idiot, but my Apex XTX has plenty of power. More than I have the balls to use in many situations.

I'd like it to have at least 180 h.p. N/A. 200 would be even better. N/A has to be the most reliable and cost effective you would think. As for too much, that is never the case for me, but I could see it being the case for some. I always say I'd rather have it and not need/use it, then not have it and need/want it.

The problem with them being N/A, is it is expensive to aftermarket boost. That is what Cat's 1100T has going for it - you can make 240 h.p. with a tune and a few supporting mods. Their problem is the rest of the sled is junk (I would know - I unfortunately owned one).

As for the XTX having enough, I have to disagree. I find myself wanting another 40 h.p. - that would be just right!

 

[theCATman]

I think you make a good point here. Is it more responsible of an OEM to offer moderate, stable, power and allow the power users to boost it if they so desire? Let's be realistic with what we are asking for from Yamaha. As much as I love my Apex and it's stock power, for as many that want more power, there are twice as many that it is too much power. (I bite my tongue saying that) but putting out a monster engine that is not stable, or may show a hint of unreliability is just not responsible. To top that, it may not be responsible putting that power in the hands of average buyers. Think of how many folks have asked to ride your Apex and you just sat back and said, nah, maybe another time.

Please flame away, but here is the best analogy. Dodge selling the Charger with the Hellcat motor. $65K list. How many idiots can scratch up $65k that should not be driving 700hp. TONS OF IDIOTS!!

There are plenty of sled idiots that should not be buying a 200hp sled as well. Many will not if it is not offered by the OEM as they have no clue how to boost a sled. Maybe I am making a gross generalization, but I think Yamaha had the right idea by offering a factory approved, third party boost option as they have. And maybe they were testing the waters before offering an MPI equipped turbo from the factory. I am still watching how the 2016 Vipers with Turbo debacle pans out. As I still smell guinea pig.

Again, I am open to flaming, as I will never turn away more power. Let's be honest, it's not that we want a ton of power, we just want a little more than the guys we ride with. Call me an idiot, but my Apex XTX has plenty of power. More than I have the balls to use in many situations.

I agree 100% with everything you said.

Experienced riders will always want big power. BUT.... look at the whole picture/the average snowmobiler. The average Joe doesn't need, nor even want big power. The average idiot can & will hurt themselves with 100 HP.

I'm hoping there are two new choices. One being a replacement for the turd Phaser. Maybe not more powerful, but in a chassis that can actually be ridden.

2nd is something in a middleweight/HP. The Phaser is a turd, yet the Vector/Viper 1049 is too much for some. Yamaha needs something in the 100 HP range. Right in the middle of enough to thrill beginers, but not overwhelming to them either.

 

[biffdotorg]

I agree 100% with everything you said.

Experienced riders will always want big power. BUT.... look at the whole picture/the average snowmobiler. The average Joe doesn't need, nor even want big power. The average idiot can & will hurt themselves with 100 HP.

I'm hoping there are two new choices. One being a replacement for the turd Phaser. Maybe not more powerful, but in a chassis that can actually be ridden.

2nd is something in a middleweight/HP. The Phaser is a turd, yet the Vector/Viper 1049 is too much for some. Yamaha needs something in the 100 HP range. Right in the middle of enough to thrill beginers, but not overwhelming to them either.

Our group just put on 600 miles in Michigan a couple weeks ago. On our way out in the truck, everyone was talking about what they did with their sleds, or what they bought that they didn't have the previous year.

The doo guys were all jacked as one replaced his GSX with a new Renegade with R-motion. That was a good move as the suspension is what he wanted, but stuck with his 600 Etec. The other ditched his old MXZ-X for a new to him Renegade 800 Etec, but it was the prior year to R-motion.

So one was lusting for the power of the 800, and the other was lusting over the better skid. Then they got a chance to ride each others sleds, and put on some quality miles. After our trip, we made this summary, the 800 Etec was a blast on the lake as it was fast, but he gave up mileage and ride. On 90% of the areas we rode, he never got the chance to abuse that extra power. And he gave up dollars for the engine, when he should have bought a year newer 600 with the better skid for the same money.

There will always be trade offs. As someone pointed out above, which trade offs are more costly to add in the aftermarket. And which are bolt on. In this case, neither was an easy add on, they had to choose up front. If I have to choose up front, I will choose the more versatile sled over other things.

Yamaha has and always will develop for the masses, it is still a business after all. But when the market is not growing, gaining market share is very hard. Opening up the market to new riders with entry-level options is the way to grow the market. (SeaDoo Spark, Polaris Indy, Ace600) Yamaha tried to do that with the Two-phazers and trailer bundle that was promoted in the US. As much as we called it a turd, I think that worked to a point. It needed to be a more rider friendly platform, and even lower price point in my book.

 

[biffdotorg]

As for the XTX having enough, I have to disagree. I find myself wanting another 40 h.p. - that would be just right!

I would not turn it down for sure! I'm with you. As long as my wallet would allow it. I would never justify $4k or more on a turbo to get it.

 

[snoman52]

This is just my opinion, One thing that I have noticed in my area is that it seems that there isn't more family's and youth getting into snowmobiling anymore. It's kinda turned into a rich man sport, and I where I see Polaris and Ski-Doo starting to shinning is the fact that they have entry level trail sleds that people can afford, and that's where I think Yamaha is missing out on is a really decent entry level trail sled that the average family can afford. For some people it's pretty hard to justify spending 12-15 thousand for just one sled, but say for example if you were to have a viper chassis or something newer with a phazer motor and the standard features on it like electric start/reserve, mid height windshield, etc... and have it listed for anywhere from$5999-$6999. I think it would be not only be a home run for Yamaha, but for the average customer.

 

[theCATman]

^ this...

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

 

[Grimm]

Unfortunately and historically, Yamaha has a tendency of overvaluing their sleds and ask too much for them.
Remember back when the Viper debuted? The comparable model was nearly $1000 cheaper over at Arctic Cat. Once sledders started screaming about the unfair pricing, Yamaha immediately made adjustments to bring the prices down, but still a few hundred more than the AC versions.

Most likely, this new sled will be manufactured in the USA, and it's price better be in line with its Arctic Cat counterpart. After all, isn't that what this collaboration with Arctic Cat meant for? Cost savings?

 

[yama_rider]

Unfortunately and historically, Yamaha has a tendency of overvaluing their sleds and ask too much for them.
Remember back when the Viper debuted? The comparable model was nearly $1000 cheaper over at Arctic Cat. Once sledders started screaming about the unfair pricing, Yamaha immediately made adjustments to bring the prices down, but still a few hundred more than the AC versions.

Most likely, this new sled will be manufactured in the USA, and it's price better be in line with its Arctic Cat counterpart. After all, isn't that what this collaboration with Arctic Cat meant for? Cost savings?

I would gladly pay an extra $1000 to get Yamaha quality over Cat but not for something made by Cat. Re sale value of Cat sleds suck. It's funny, in my area the 7000 asking prices are lower than Viper asking prices and there are way more Vipers on the trail than 7000's. People just love the Yamaha reputation of quality even if it is made by Cat. "If you build it, they will come." This new sled, if it is built by Yamaha will be a home run if it is at the top of the HP podium. Guaranteed they will sell out. But I agree with you. As of now, Yamaha sleds are over priced.

 

[Fusion]

That video shows you nothing. If that's any indication of what Yamaha has, expectations are very low. That has to be the least effective promo video ever in the history of snowmobiles.

 

[4strokeluvr111]

That video shows you nothing. If that's any indication of what Yamaha has, expectations are very low. That has to be the least effective promo video ever in the history of snowmobiles.

It's a start isn't it?

 

[biffdotorg]

That video shows you nothing. If that's any indication of what Yamaha has, expectations are very low. That has to be the least effective promo video ever in the history of snowmobiles.

That's the idea, it's not a promotion video. It's not meant to show you anything. It's a teaser video to generate excitement and conversation and it has been 100% successful. It has lit this board up as well as the other brand focused sites. Even Hardcore sledder is lit up.

They use these every year knowing that they work. The youtube clip alone has generated almost 4500 views in less than 24 hours, and that doesn't count the views when embedded. This thing is embedded all over.

The "promo" videos will be released March 1st. By then thousands of sledheads will be frothing to see it. That's the whole idea.

 

[Tony S.]

Sure sounds like a crossplane engine to me. The emergence of turbocharging is only because no one has a performance engine like the Apex’s (12k rpm)- this is why they must turn to boost. And boost is cheap. Yamaha doesn't need to do this. The 998cc 4-cyl. is superior to the 3 hole in every way.

Two strokes have reached their practical, reliable, mass produced power ceiling (~200hp/liter). The 800 etec for example with its 75.7mm stroke is already highly stressed. You can't make power and be reliable without weight, there's no way around it. So I think the other manufacturers are backed into a corner- and lets not forget the emissions aspect.

Yamaha cut 10 pounds from the current R1 engine just by using magnesium covers, granted that's the new short stroke 998cc version. But they can use the same tricks on the existing Apex engine (plus DI and hotter cam)- Its also clean and gets great mileage. They should be able to get the weight down to within 40 lbs of the leading 2-stroke machine (XRS 800; weight 600 pounds).

The engines are not the problem. Yamaha should tweak the engines and focus on the rest of the sleds i.e. suspension, ergonomics, styling and chassis.

Can't wait...

 

[Fusion]

That video only tweaks interest with the most diehard loyalists. Nobody that rides another brand gets excited by that unless he's been drinking rather heavily.
I've never seen so much excitement about so little content. Sorry TY, but it's rather laughable. Any bets about whatever it is weighing less than 500 lbs? I'll give you 10-1 odds not a chance.

 

[Grimm]

Keeping expectations low worked for me the last few years with Yamaha...and they delivered by having nothing new since the FX Nytro. The intro of the Viper was a jaw dropper, but since it wasn't a new sled, I was hardly excited when it was released...more disappointed.

Yamaha has been "Rockin the Pampers" for many years now...time to put on some Big Boy pants and step up.