Best Nytro front end kit.

[vip8]

shadow44.
Send me a pm and I'll get you some info.

 

[natedawgedog]

No extensions, just move the stock skid back. And no I havent tested all the front end kits but I think only one addresses the root problem of the sled and that being its wheel base is to short all around. If I see an after market front that pushes the a-arms forward 2.5 inches and deals with all that changes when doing that like scrub,bumpsteer caster camber and so on, "sign me up" I just havn't seen it yet. To me the kit should consist of more than just a-arms and better bushings, like a new steering crank, draglink and spindle. my mod can be done in one night for about 40 bucks and how ever much you want to spend on a track, I paid $250. and yes it dose affect the balance of the sled it makes it more stable, and with very little adjustments in weight transfer, you wont even notice the extra lenght, One because you only put one more lug on the ground and at 2.52 track pitch you hardly notice it, two you are still using a 121 rail. IMO' I'd rather do this than spend 900.00 on an incomplete front end kit.

pushing the rear of the snowmobile farther back isnt the answer to the problems that we all have with our nytros. if that were true, then the guys with the xtx's and the mtx's wouldnt have a problem (but we all still do).

 

[rlcofmn]

And no I haven't tested all the front end kits but I think only one addresses the root problem of the sled and that being its wheel base is to short all around. If I see an after market front that pushes the a-arms forward 2.5 inches and deals with all that changes when doing that like scrub,bump steer caster camber and so on, "sign me up" I just haven't seen it yet. To me the kit should consist of more than just a-arms and better bushings, like a new steering crank, draglink and spindle. IMO' I'd rather do this than spend 900.00 on an incomplete front end kit.

Once again, pretty bold statement for someone who hasn't seen the kit.

Scrub, how without going to a long cross a arm set up like a Baja truck would you reduce scrub on a A arm suspension? I guess we could go to leaf springs or pogo sticks.

Caster and camber, Both the Z-broz and Skinz change the caster and offer adjustable camber...

Bump steer and wanting a completely new steering set up, I have not personally tested mine on any of my different front ends but from what i have been told there is great improvements. It is all assumptions to say that it is right or wrong on the aftermarket options out there. Bump steer is a very complicated subject that to be completely honest I don't have the time to do the proper testing/research to address other than just testing what I have.

I think you are completely correct that the wheelbase being a big problem with the handling but I also see ski pressure being a big one. A skid set back is going in the wrong direction on ski pressure.

We all have opinions

 

[AKrider]

The big plus I see with the skid set back is it will reduce the short track Nytro's excessive weight transfer. I believe Yamaha purposely designed the Nytro up with too much weight transfer to help hide the front end weight of the sled and give the impression that it was lighter and far more powerful than a 600cc 2-stroke. There is no doubt it has more power than a 2-stroke but it certainly doesn't compare in weight and handling.

The weight transfer is something we've all fought and tuned our handling around. I think setting the skid back is worth a try but it is not a substitute for an improved front end. I believe the mod will improve the Nytro's cornering, make the sled more predictable in regards to ski-lift, and greatly reduce the low speed, throttle induced pushing in the corners. However, the sled is still going to dart and exhibit all the traits that hundreds of threads have brought up because the stock Nytro's front end geometry is flawed. Putting more weight on the skis will not improve the high speed stability one bit in hard, icy, set up trail conditions.

I'm looking forward to reading reviews about the new front end kits that will be available this winter.

 

[mjaremko]

Lenghtening the wheelbase of the Nytro 121" solves the handeling issues ??

If this was the case then the XTX would be the fix, and it isnt. The XTX is still the unstable at any speed, tippy machine the 121 is.


mj

 

[Alatalo]

Exactly. There is more to it than just changing the wheelbase. If you want to improve stability you also need to do something about the silly low caster and trail numbers as well as the overall weight distribution...

 

[vip8]

Moving the skid back dose address some of the weight distribution problems. As far as scrub gose, there are other a-arm geometrys that have less scrub in them and arnt going to the extreme of a baja truck. as for the the weight transfer and ski presure from what I can tell when riding the sled it got better and I think the reason is this. the stock nytro is to short we all can agree on that. Pushing the skid back and keeping the same contact patch on the ground dose not warent excessive ski presure. on the stock nytro there was always a teter-toter effect when your on and off the power, the only way to tune it out of the rear was to either tighten up the limmeter or soften the front shock setting witch would result in harsh steering or front torque arm bottoming, when we moved the skid back we were able to put some travel back in the front torque arm and run a little stiffer valving in the shock and the longer wheel base eliminated the teter-toter effect witch ment we could drive into the corners alot harder and still have steering bite thrugh the corner when on the power. I have built diffrent front ends of my own also and from my experiance if you do not change the location of the a-arms on the subframe and address the steering linkage issues, "and remember IMO" take it or leave it I wouldnt spend $900 on a front end until you try this for $300 first. It will only help the sled weather you decide to do the front or not.

P.S. Comparing a xtx or an mtx to this set up isnt a real comparision.

 

[AKrider]

You bring up good points about the Nytro's teeter totter effect. This is cause by excessive weight transfer. I think your mod is a good one, but it won't improve the Nytro's handling as much as a well designed front end kit. At this point in time we can only speculate as to how well the new kits are going to work. I'm not convinced that anything currently being marketed is the cure to the Nytro's handling issues. There is only so much that can be done to improve the Nytro using the stock sub frame and mounting points. I know that the bump steer cannot be "tuned out" without changing the steering post tie rod mount or the mounting points for the tie rods on the spindles.

The other posts mentioning the XTX and MTX are excellent because extending the "wheelbase" still doesn't cure the Nytro's twitchy handling.

 

[vip8]

Thats all I was getting at, I do belive that the kits that are out there are an improvement over stock It's just not something Im willing to spend that much money on for the gains it gets you. I aslo agree the xtx and mtx are still nervous in the front end but I have rode both and the do track straighter at speed and neither have the teter-toter feel to them like the 121 dose, they also have differnt suspension geometry.My current project is a new coupling system for the rear sissor arm and a longer front torque arm design to change the leverage and ratio on the front track shock.

 

[AKrider]

I think it would be easier to just swap in the skid out of a Polaris IQR. That's what the race team did as the IQR rear skid has a very long front arm. It would be a reasonably inexpensive swap since the IQ race sled has been around since '05. Another benefit is that rear skid is beefier than the stock Nytro and replacement parts are less expensive.

 

[sheetwright]

Here is what I bought. Couldn't beat the price, service, and are they beefy.
http://www.alternativeimpact.com/Yamaha ... A-Arms.htm

Look more like the Apex arms, but they seem light and are very beefy. The ball joints are very stout IMO

 

[AKrider]

That front end looks nice for weight savings but the website didn't mention anything about it improving the geometry.

 

[sheetwright]

The front end has the 09-10other geometry and yes is lighter. Figured it is at least less twtwitchy then my original 08 arms. Plus these ball joints arethick

 

[bottlerocket]

Have any seat time with it sheetwright?

 

[sheetwright]

Only one trip and hard to tell. Seems sturdy and flatter in the straights, but in the turns I really can't compare. I made so many changes at once it made it a totally different sled. The taller seat position, longer track, extra studs and added weight didn't work well with the summons skis. To much push in the corners. So I switched to c&a xtc and 8" of carbide for this year. Bumps and straights a beast. Corners im still working on. But for the price I thought it was worth a try over the others. I have the barkbuster on my apex fyi and it corners great is lighter and is flatter imo, but it is a lot weaker at the ball joints and spindles. Just an fyi
. $135 for two new ball joints and a bushing kit after a little over season