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CV TECH PB 80 primary clutch (Apex & Vector)

Discussion in 'Engine & Clutching' started by Redbeard, Oct 9, 2017.


  1. Redbeard

    Redbeard Lifetime Member Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    1,665
    Location:
    IN
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
    2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
    2004 RX Warrior
    1995 Vmax 4 800
    1995 Vmax 600 LE
    1995 Ovation 340 LE
    Current clutch calibrations are listed on page 2, post 17.





    VECTOR:


    My 2008 Vector LTX hit the 10,000 mile mark this past season. I've owned this sled since new and it's been bullet proof with NO issues, except the original primary clutch is showing its age (worn sheaves, pins and bushings). Since day one, however, my only complaint has been the rattle...rattle...rattle sound the clutch produces. This past winter had me considering a replacement before this upcoming season. I actually have two, like new, spare Yamaha clutches sitting on the shelf for such an occasion, but I wanted to try and find a way to get away from the rattle, and the only way I know to explore that option is with the aftermarket.

    I searched and read all internet forums this summer, and one name that kept popping up was the CV Tech Power Bloc 80. There's very little information about these clutches being used on Yamaha, but CV Tech does offer the PB 80 pre-calibrated for the Vector; for most Yamaha 4-stoke in fact. Reports of this clutch used on other brands have been mostly positive; some even swearing by it. Reports also indicate this isn't a suitable clutch for drag racing, but I'm long distance trail rider, not a racer.

    Like stock, the PB 80 has a primary spring, but that's where the similarities end. It has no arms, pins, rollers or bushings, with the exception of bushings on the sliding half of the sheaves. There are three large pucks that contain interchangeable weight discs. As RPM increases, centrifugal force causes the pucks to tip outward and press on the clutch cover, which eventually overcomes the primary spring and engages the sheaves on the belt. To change engine RPM, you simply add or subtract weight discs in each puck. There are different weights of discs available, even slug weights for turbo applications. There is also a vast assortment of primary springs available for custom tailoring. The clutch appears to be well built with plenty of meat in all the right areas.

    More to come as I gear up to install this clutch. I will also update this winter as I get some miles on and form a real-world opinion. Stay tuned!

    EDIT - I have since purchased a PB 80 for my 2012 Apex as well.

    PB30.jpg 20171002_051952.jpg PB31.jpg 20171009_062204.jpg 20171009_062018.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
    YukonMP and Dusty Dan like this.
  2.  
  3. DGZRT

    DGZRT VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    883
    Location:
    Stevens Point Wisconsin
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2009 Vector LTX, 08 Vector shorty, 98 XTC 500 & 600
    I'll be watching this one ! I have a Vector that's pushing 12000 miles. I'm about done adding upgrades but if this works good for you I might have to invest...
     
    Redbeard likes this.
  4. Redbeard

    Redbeard Lifetime Member Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    1,665
    Location:
    IN
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
    2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
    2004 RX Warrior
    1995 Vmax 4 800
    1995 Vmax 600 LE
    1995 Ovation 340 LE
    VECTOR:

    Using a U.S. postage scale, I weighed the PB 80 and compared it to the stock Yamaha clutch weight. The PB is actually heavier than stock by 5.6 oz. I assumed the extra weight was from the steel cover, but I wasn't sure? I disassembled the clutch and started weighing all the internal components and discovered each puck, contains 9 disks and weighs right at 100+ grams. Wow! That tells me the extra weight is likely from the heavy pucks and the steel cover combined. Again, this clutch was shipped pre-calibrated for a Vector. More to come later on the spring.

    Here is a breakdown of all the weights:

    PB12.jpg PB13.jpg PB27.jpg PB21.jpg PB22.jpg PB24.jpg PB25.jpg PB23.jpg PB26.jpg PB28.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  5. Redbeard

    Redbeard Lifetime Member Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    1,665
    Location:
    IN
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
    2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
    2004 RX Warrior
    1995 Vmax 4 800
    1995 Vmax 600 LE
    1995 Ovation 340 LE
    I'm anxious to give this clutch a shot!
     
  6. DGZRT

    DGZRT VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    883
    Location:
    Stevens Point Wisconsin
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2009 Vector LTX, 08 Vector shorty, 98 XTC 500 & 600
    I have never seen this clutch torn apart . Good Info. So all you do is unscrew retaining clip from the puck and add or subtract pucks to get the desired engagement ? Did they pre set this up for how you ride ? Ulmer asked me a lot of questions then set it up from how I answered. It has been a great kit from him. This looks way to simple..:)
     
  7. Redbeard

    Redbeard Lifetime Member Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    1,665
    Location:
    IN
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
    2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
    2004 RX Warrior
    1995 Vmax 4 800
    1995 Vmax 600 LE
    1995 Ovation 340 LE
    Yes and No. ;)

    First, I want to mention that I'm not discrediting a stock Yamaha clutch by any means. They're noisy on a triple 4-stroke, but that's just me being picky. :) We ALL know a stock Yamaha clutch is very effective and infinitely adjustable.;)!

    Yes, this particular PB 80 was shipped pre-calibrated for the Vector triple, but I'm guessing it's a base line calibration; in the ballpark, so to speak.

    I'm not a clutch specialist by any means, but I would think that altitude, track length, lug height, riding style and rider weight would all come in to play with this clutch as well. I plan to install the clutch "as is" and see where she runs at before I make any changes.

    Yes, as you mentioned, all you do is add or subtract the weight discs, equally, inside each puck, to adjust rpm. There are heavy and light disks available, as are a wide range of primary springs. I would think that adding and/or subtracting a large amount of weight would merit a spring change at some point. On the other hand, three, 100 gram pucks and a massive primary spring has me thinking this clutch will be smooth and predictable! More info on my existing spring and other available springs coming soon.

    To access the pucks and change weight, you remove the clutch mounting bolt, a large 1-7/16" nut on the cover...and the pucks are right there! Adjust your weight, retorque hardware and you're good for the next run. Should only take 10 minutes or less to adjust.

    Time will tell my friend, but I can't wait to try 'er out.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
    Dusty Dan likes this.
  8. DGZRT

    DGZRT VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    883
    Location:
    Stevens Point Wisconsin
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2009 Vector LTX, 08 Vector shorty, 98 XTC 500 & 600
    You must have a field of clover and some dish soap ! I'm thinking some grass drags ! :sled1:
     
  9. Stubby Hungwell

    Stubby Hungwell Expert

    Messages:
    468
    Location:
    Uxbridge, On, Can.
    Country:
    Canada
    Snowmobile:
    ‘11 Apex XTX
    The 1970's called, they'd like their clutch technology back. Lol
    I've had a rattling triple, so I get it, but the super old school tech makes me laugh a little. I'll be keeping an eye on this to see how it ends up.
     
  10. Redbeard

    Redbeard Lifetime Member Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    1,665
    Location:
    IN
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
    2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
    2004 RX Warrior
    1995 Vmax 4 800
    1995 Vmax 600 LE
    1995 Ovation 340 LE
    Yep! Old tech with a new twist. I'm a clutch dummy, so if this clutch performs anywhere close to stock, they'll be perfect for me.

    I will disprove one myth; this clutch does nothing for the infamous 3 cyl rattle. It is quiet and smooth, however, on a 4 cyl.

    On the stand, this clutch backshifts fast. I have yet to get on the snow, so that's the extent of feedback I can offer at this time.

    Second week of January, it's snow time in the UP for me.
     
  11. Redbeard

    Redbeard Lifetime Member Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    1,665
    Location:
    IN
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
    2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
    2004 RX Warrior
    1995 Vmax 4 800
    1995 Vmax 600 LE
    1995 Ovation 340 LE
    Ok....

    My son and I just hammered out 70 miles on my Apex and Vector. No trails yet, just fields and ditches.

    Apex:

    Whack the throttle and straight to 10,900. It seemed a little soft out of the hole, but it accelerated hard and was very smooth overall. Belt was very warm to the touch. I'm going to leave this clutch alone and run it "as-is " until I get some trail time.

    Vector:

    Whack the throttle and straight to 8700. It felt strong out of the hole and pulled hard. Again, smooth operation. Belt was warm to the touch.

    I have yet to put any real miles on these, but my initial impression is positive.

    Stay tuned and I'll post more feedback when I have it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
    Dusty Dan and slowride06er like this.
  12. DGZRT

    DGZRT VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    883
    Location:
    Stevens Point Wisconsin
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2009 Vector LTX, 08 Vector shorty, 98 XTC 500 & 600
    Good follow up! Please keep letting us know how they are working
     
    Redbeard likes this.
  13. Redbeard

    Redbeard Lifetime Member Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    1,665
    Location:
    IN
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
    2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
    2004 RX Warrior
    1995 Vmax 4 800
    1995 Vmax 600 LE
    1995 Ovation 340 LE
    We just returned home from a 3 day rip in the UP. This trip was my first run using these clutches on the trail. Unfortunately, my buddy with a stock '11 Apex had to cancel, so I didn't have a constant to compare against. Keep in mind that I'm a novice trail rider, not a racer. A.K.A. Clutch Dummy!

    Note* Both clutches were shipped pre-calibrated.

    APEX:

    Engagement is a little higher than I'd like @ 3,500 - 3,800. Backshift is instant! It pulls hard from 0 - 70 mph on hard pack. It's a hoot in the twisties, but it tops out at only 85 mph in the straights, running @ 11,000 RPM. That's too many RPM for general trail riding, and it should be faster IMO. I know this sled is capable of 100 mph, even with the stock 23/37 gearing.

    I opened the side panel and noticed the sheaves weren't fully closing (pic below). That tells me I need to throw more weight at the pucks, which should help get the belt to the edge, increase ground speed and lower RPM's. When I went to the truck for my tools, however, I discovered that I left ALL my extra weight discs at home on the bench. :o| That was the end of my Apex tuning for this trip. I took my stock primary clutch in case it was needed, but decided to just wait until I got home for a recalibration of the PB. I feel like some weight will really bring this clutch in line for the way I ride - trail.

    VECTOR:

    I put almost 500 miles on this sled in two days. Clutch engagement is nice @ 2500 - 2800. The sled pulls hard and I actually got it to top out at 94 mph on a hard-packed trail. I didn't have a Garmin, so I'd say the sled was actually running 85+. RPM's were a tad low, but I'd prefer to be weighted slightly heavy, verses light.

    Upon inspection, I noticed the belt was getting all the way to the edge @ WOT, so that and the seat-of-my-pants feeling tells me the calibration is suitable for the way I ride. I think one weight disk could be removed from each puck, which would slightly raise RPM, but I'm very satisfied with the current configuration.

    My only disappointment is the infamous clutch rattle-rattle is still there on the Vector. I'm speculating the rattle is a net result of piston power pulses and the mass of the spinning clutch, which causes the splines of the clutch stub shaft to hammer the splines of the crankshaft.

    Stay tuned for the next rip once I get the Apex recalibrated.

    20180108_141032.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  14. Redbeard

    Redbeard Lifetime Member Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    1,665
    Location:
    IN
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
    2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
    2004 RX Warrior
    1995 Vmax 4 800
    1995 Vmax 600 LE
    1995 Ovation 340 LE
    APEX:

    I got the Apex into the shop for a recalibration. I know you have to either clutch for corner-to-corner, or top end. What I'm looking for is more towards the top end. While fast corners are a hoot, I prefer a clutch to shift out for subtle trail cruising and the occasional 100 mph rip down the straights.

    As stated earlier, the RPM's are too high and the drive belt is not getting to the edge at WOT. I also noticed some rubber transfer from the belt slipping at take off, so that explains why it felt soft out of the hole.

    For now, I'm going to add (3) 5.7 gram weights to each puck. That might be one too many, but I'd rather be a tick heavy to start with and back down from there. I'm hoping this adjustment gets the belt farther out on the sheive at WOT and less slippage at take off. If it still slips, I'm going to try a lighter spring. That may require taking some weight back out, but like I've ALWAYS been told about clutching, make one adjustment at a time.

    PB9.jpg PB8.jpg PB11.jpg PB16.jpg PB13.jpg PB14.jpg PB15.jpg PB12.jpg PB7.jpg PB10.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  15. Redbeard

    Redbeard Lifetime Member Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    1,665
    Location:
    IN
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
    2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
    2004 RX Warrior
    1995 Vmax 4 800
    1995 Vmax 600 LE
    1995 Ovation 340 LE
    Ok, I took the Apex for a rip down my road. I thought 3, 5.7 gram weights might be too much, but I think it's pretty close! Engagement dropped to 3200-3400-ish and I was climbing past 90 when I ran out of road. We do not have enough snow for a good run.

    Only thing to do now is head back north for a true run on the trail...and take all the appropriate items for a parking lot recalibration if needed.

    :sled1:
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
    Dusty Dan likes this.
  16. Redbeard

    Redbeard Lifetime Member Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    1,665
    Location:
    IN
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
    2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
    2004 RX Warrior
    1995 Vmax 4 800
    1995 Vmax 600 LE
    1995 Ovation 340 LE
    Working on sleds and burning corn at home today. Other than riding, it doesn't get much better my friends!

    20180114_095632.jpg 20180114_095646.jpg
     
    Riceburner likes this.

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