Direct Drive

[horkn]

diamond drive is a power robbing pile of scrap. why do you think the f7 could pull 115-120 with the chaincase and 100-110 with diamond drive? how about that 183hp turbo getting beat by 150hp apexes. you jam a handful of small gears into a small case and turn up the power and all efficiency is lost. as for belts blowing they replaced chains on big cc bikes and they hold up well.

No bike that makes good HP has belts. Real bikes have chains for a reason. Belts blow easily compared to chains.

I know the PERC spiuns the motor in reverse. Doesn't the PERC4 do the same?

Also, cat detuned the F7 after the 03 model year. That may be a reason they don't run as fast.

 

[RedRocket]

No bike that makes good HP has belts. Real bikes have chains for a reason. Belts blow easily compared to chains.

I know the PERC spiuns the motor in reverse. Doesn't the PERC4 do the same?

Also, cat detuned the F7 after the 03 model year. That may be a reason they don't run as fast.

Gee, I guess a 150hp / 106lb.ft. turbo V-rod does not have good HP. Plus a lot more low-end chain snapping torque than a crotch rocket. There are plenty of high hp bikes running a belt drive, it's plenty strong, quieter, smoother and maintenance free. I have never seen a belt blow on a bike, I have seen plenty of chains snap or stretch past usefulness though. A belt has a little give to absorb the initial torque where a chain just stretches and snaps.

I am interested in hearing how the Polaris PERC-4 system works. I see it listed on all the 4-stroke sleds but no info on how it works. I highly doubt they run the 4-stroke backwards like a 2-stroke, that would be impossible without some way of controlling the cam shaft / valves electronically...

 

[horkn]

I have seen 2 belts blow on a buell M2 Cyclone with only a pipe, and a bigger carb on it.

In roadracing, even the buells that have belts from the factory have chains put on to go racing.

Also, when making more HP, the guys that really build up their HD's put on chain drives instead of belts.

I ride a V twin LC 8 valve 1000cc superbike. I know about torque. While the v rod actually makes good power, all the ones I see that have more HP than stock have chains. Note that I live in Milwaukee. I see a few HD's around here.

fwiw, a 1300cc Haybusa sport bike makes 150 hp, and 99 tq from the factory. If you were to compare HP and tq curves, a v rod is not in the same ballpark as the big iron sport bikes. I don't know why some old folks call sport bikes crotch rockets. My old roomie had an 02 busa with quite a few bolt ons, and it was wicked fast. Like 215 mph and still had power fast. Throw a turbo on a busa and you are looking at 350 hp not even sweating it with stock internals. And yes, haybusa's and the kawi zx14 have chains on them, and there is no belt drive option for them.
Going to a chain on those bikes would be going backwards.

Never mind that on one dyno day a guy with a built chopper had a huge like around 2 liter S &S motor in it, and he had a chain on it. he was another that said that if he had a belt drive he would shred it quickly. BTW, that built motor had less wheel hp (but more tq as you would hope) than my 1000cc v twin sport bike that has 120 rwhp, and 75 tq.

 

[RedRocket]

No bike that makes good HP has belts

the v rod actually makes good power

Make up your damn mind would ya.

The point is a belt can handle plenty of power and can easily be used in this situation. (100-150hp sled) That is what we are talking about here, not some 300hp turbo hyabusa that can't keep the front wheel down without a 12ft wheelie bar hanging off the back. Also, my CBR900RR is a crotch rocket, I am not old and that is what it is.

 

[horkn]

No bike that makes good HP has belts

the v rod actually makes good power

Make up your damn mind would ya.

The point is a belt can handle plenty of power and can easily be used in this situation. (100-150hp sled) That is what we are talking about here, not some 300hp turbo hyabusa that can't keep the front wheel down without a 12ft wheelie bar hanging off the back. Also, my CBR900RR is a crotch rocket, I am not old and that is what it is.

Well the v rod is the only HD I would ever buy, if I ever were to buy a HD, which would not be likely. But that would be because it is LC, and has overhead cams, despite it being small compared to the rest of the HD big bike line up.

I was simply proving to any one in doubt that a chain can handle the power, and even more than belt. If you have ridden a hayabusa, you would know that it is less prone to wheelie than your 900rr. You sir have a sport bike. Using that other term is outdated, and improper. No company that has ever made sport bikes has referred to them as such. That term is also one reason our insurance is more expensive than cruiser bike insurance.

 

[sedz]

I had a snopro that had belt drive system last year, I'm not convinced its any good on a sled. Under hard loads the belt will slip and wear out the cogs badly in no time. The kid that owns it now has gone thru 3 belts in the last couple weeks, they may hold up better for strictly trail riding though.

Normal chaincase with a slipper gear would be my advice.

 

[bluemissile]

i was flipping through a 1973 yama sled brochure and could'nt help notice they made a hydraulic drive unit on the ew-643. wahts the scoop with idea must not have worked well because they stopped using it.

 

[Phazernut]

Didn't John Deer eliminate the chain case on the spitfire. I know that little sled was nuts for its' day.

 

[Blue 4's Rule]

The Polaris PERC -4 system works exactly like our Yammi reverse. It's all mechanical, the only difference is it has a button on the handle bars that activates a selenoid that engages the reverse where as we pull a lever. My wife's 08 IQ Cruiser Turbo has this system. When you hit the button you hear a little bit of gear grinding and a mild clunk and then it's in reverse. The engine does not spin backwards(can't on 4 stroke). The idle remains constant when switching from forward to reverse or vice versa!

 

[Sled_Doctor]

Blue Missile:
I have a 1974 Yamaha TW433 that has the hydraulic drive unit. It has a high / low shift and cogged timing belt. This machine is no speed demon and I am not sure how well it would hold together at high speeds.....I think they only offered that drive system for 2 years so it must not have been a real improvement.

 

[horkn]

The Polaris PERC -4 system works exactly like our Yammi reverse. It's all mechanical, the only difference is it has a button on the handle bars that activates a selenoid that engages the reverse where as we pull a lever. My wife's 08 IQ Cruiser Turbo has this system. When you hit the button you hear a little bit of gear grinding and a mild clunk and then it's in reverse. The engine does not spin backwards(can't on 4 stroke). The idle remains constant when switching from forward to reverse or vice versa!

Thanks for the explanation Blue 4!

I was trying to get my head around how a 4 stroke could even run in reverse. Apparently they can't, and that makes sense.

 

[Blue 4's Rule]

 

[doo_man]

Same system that's used on the Phazer models.

 

[stevewithOCD]

I think "BLADE" or "REDLINE" used the cog belt. This could be an excellent idea if done correctly. No oil, can be inspected easily, gears or cogs changed in minutes & even if the belt did break it could be changed quickly. Alot of high horsepower vehicles have used timing belts included car engines that last 100,000 miles. Just seems like an idea to work with...

 

[towerrigger]

CMX make a conversion kit to belt drive. Really pricey though at $2400! They do have the brake mounted to the bottom drive axle instead of having it on the secondary shaft.