Does the sidewinder secondary float

[ROCKERDAN]

Does anyone know how much float is in the secondary, once off idle? I know it may vary depending on whose adjuster is used, but I want to dive into this along with seeing how the alignment looks by eye when run on stand. Will have to remove guard.

I just got to wondering about float as the offset is critical and just wondered how much "float" is in this system.

 

[cannondale27]

Does anyone know how much float is in the secondary, once off idle? I know it may vary depending on whose adjuster is used, but I want to dive into this along with seeing how the alignment looks by eye when run on stand. Will have to remove guard.

I just got to wondering about float as the offset is critical and just wondered how much "float" is in this system.

Good question. I am looking but its not in manual. Since Sidewinder has the Deflection adjuster on outside like aftermarket there is no float till secondary start to shift. At that point I am just assuming its the 1-2mm like it always was. Would depend on the amount of offset shims installed also.

 

[MrSled]

Good question. I am looking but its not in manual. Since Sidewinder has the Deflection adjuster on outside like aftermarket there is no float till secondary start to shift. At that point I am just assuming its the 1-2mm like it always was. Would depend on the amount of offset shims installed also.
View attachment 132459

I would have to agree. I see no float in the secondary because of the shimming style.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I designed the original belt adjuster with float, and Jim approached me and took the idea, and added more things to it.

When I designed it, It was all because I wanted to try to make the cats belt life better, I did not even care about belt changing. It was all about floating it. So I just was not sure how much float these adjusters have built into them. I know there are many brands out there, and Im not sure people realize this but the adjuster's design will yield how much float there is, and has nothing to do with stock items once you swap out the stock plug and shims.

As mentioned, you cannot measure float the normal way at idle, since the helix is up against the adjuster to adjust deflection. It only can be seen/measured when the sled is run up in stand, OR mocked up. I designed the original mocking up clutches without springs, as I often like to do when a sled has belt issues. You can see everything when mocked up at full shift.

With our Winders, the back section of the guard is riveted to tunnel, so I will have to drill out those 2 rivets in order to remove the guard and do a proper mock up and visual alignment/compared to proper offset as per spec. Just to be sure things look correct.

With a sled that has been known to blow belts, I just want to cover all bases. I will then be able to discern the actual amount of float. I will do this with stock setup, then compare to my adjuster setup. Just did not know if this had been done yet, but I have a feeling with the guard not easily removed, most guys have not mocked it up like we would normally. Might not be able to do this until im done here, and up north for good....so it could be abit.

Thanks Guys
Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I will post this video I did yrs ago, of my cat running up on stand, showing the float I was able to make with the adjuster with float.



This is my cat, from awhile back...but skip ahead to 2:25 or so, and you will see the float.

 

[shagman]

Yes the secondary floats. It will float the distance from the end of the bushing of the fixed sheave to the washer or belt adjuster. Never measured that distance. (Doesn’t really matter as long as it can move some. There is more than enough built in. ) It can float as soon as the belt starts to travel down the sheaves and why the offset is critical. The setting needs to be 61.1mm but less than 62mm. The reason for this is that you don’t want the secondary to try to push out when going slow as it’s always wearing the belt due to that is the fixed sheave and doesn’t move until the belt travels into secondary (going faster). By setting like this the inner or moveable sheave Control’s alignment as the belt travels down the face of the sheave and if the belt is slightly out of alignment the moveable is already moving in the correct direction to correct alignment before it has to float causing better belt wear and less heat. Sorry for being long winded but there is a lot going on to explain.

 

[budman 1000]

its not very hard to check your freeplay or float, all I did was removed belt and then removed secondary spring. Then bolt the it back together without the spring in and now you can do a mock of your secondary opening by hand. as soon as my secondary starts to open/as your belt would normally do when you start driving, your secondary clutch has freeplay movement on the shaft; my sled has 2mm of freeplay.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

its not very hard to check your freeplay or float, all I did was removed belt and then removed secondary spring. Then bolt the it back together without the spring in and now you can do a mock of your secondary opening by hand. as soon as my secondary starts to open/as your belt would normally do when you start driving, your secondary clutch has freeplay movement on the shaft; my sled has 2mm of freeplay.

Exactly what I always do...I just have not done it yet and wondered what others have measured with stock float plug VS other aftermarket adjusters. Thanks for the measurement.

BTW I did not start this thread, and the title is not mine. Read the first post as that is mine.

I hear of belt blowers with proper offset spec, and so I want to dive into the alignment with a mockup and guard removed so it all can be seen properly. I want to be 100% certain the offset spec is correct, as we all know things are different with this new primary/OD and roller secondary, and Im not convinced yamaha has all specs correct. After all, blowing belts prior to these models was a rare occasion on Yam sleds. Float can be a good thing, but also can be detrimental if its too much, or coming off a poor initial offset. Will do alot more in depth on this once Im up north later in season.

Dan

 

[shagman]

Exactly what I always do...I just have not done it yet and wondered what others have measured with stock float plug VS other aftermarket adjusters. Thanks for the measurement.

BTW I did not start this thread, and the title is not mine. Read the first post as that is mine.

I hear of belt blowers with proper offset spec, and so I want to dive into the alignment with a mockup and guard removed so it all can be seen properly. I want to be 100% certain the offset spec is correct, as we all know things are different with this new primary/OD and roller secondary, and Im not convinced yamaha has all specs correct. After all, blowing belts prior to these models was a rare occasion on Yam sleds. Float can be a good thing, but also can be detrimental if its too much, or coming off a poor initial offset. Will do alot more in depth on this once Im up north later in season.

Dan

Offset spec is off. That is why I posted. I have fixed several sled that were blowing belts. Now they don’t. 61.1mm minimum 62mm max. 95% sleds that is 2mm behind secondary. I’ll be surprised if you find different results.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Offset spec is off. That is why I posted. I have fixed several sled that were blowing belts. Now they don’t. 61.1mm minimum 62mm max. 95% sleds that is 2mm behind secondary. I’ll be surprised if you find different results.

Good to hear Shag....I always like to run them on stand and watch how the belt rides from bottom to top shift....Amazing how far off some sleds are out of box!

I did find the spec, so it sounds like you prefer the higher end if not a tad more.

Dan

 

[Dieselxtx]

On a Lake race from A stop can the secondary even float with that much toque applied to the splines? I don’t think it will that would make the offset adjustment very crucial. Correct me if I’m wrong?

 

[ROCKERDAN]

On a Lake race from A stop can the secondary even float with that much toque applied to the splines? I don’t think it will that would make the offset adjustment very crucial. Correct me if I’m wrong?

This was my point....Under extreme acceleration float can "stick" into a certain spot on the spline/shaft, and not move to position...So I wanted to know how far off it "COULD" be if it didnt move. And this may end up being an issue? I believe there is a reason belts blow, and its not the clutches.

Certainly want to keep the splines greased as they are new, not let them dry out.

Dan