Dyno Comparison....for what it's worth

[fatchance]

The chart i posted shows the Apex peaking around 110 ft/lbs and staying over 100 ft/lbs most of the way through the power band with the Sidewinder peaking around 125 ft/lbs and holding 120ft/lbs throughout the test band. Sasquatch brings up a good point though. Why don't we see the full dyno RPM range?

 

[SledFreak]

I was curious to see how the the torque numbers would compare between the Apex and the Sidewinder. So I overlaid what information we have on the new motor with dyno test results from the Amsnow article on the 2011 Apex and this is how it looks. And Yes, I realize this was a pre-production Sidewinder that was dyno tested so don't shoot the messenger! View attachment 117662

In 2011, was also when DTR also changed and upgraded their dyno. So, was this on the old dyno or the new dyno. The new dyno only came in at 151hp. The 160ish number that was reported for the Apex was based off a number from the old dyno and the old dyno was off by 10+ hp. I remember this being a big debate back then.

 

[fatchance]

In 2011, was also when DTR also changed and upgraded their dyno. So, was this on the old dyno or the new dyno. The new dyno only came in at 151hp. The 160ish number that was reported for the Apex was based off a number from the old dyno and the old dyno was off by 10+ hp. I remember this being a big debate back then.

here is the link to the source....http://www.amsnow.com/news/dyno-tests/2010/09/2011-yamaha-apex-dyno-test

 

[SledFreak]

You are not understanding here.. That dyno run was from his old dyno... THat dyno was not accurate. He later changed his dyno and his numbers were more in line of Yamaha's claim of 3-5hp over the 2010 Apex. The 800R etec never made that 163 again. It was only ever a true 155. Doo never claimed it to be that high.

 

[fatchance]

You are not understanding here.. That dyno run was from his old dyno... THat dyno was not accurate. He later changed his dyno and his numbers were more in line of Yamaha's claim of 3-5hp over the 2010 Apex. The 800R etec never made that 163 again. It was only ever a true 155. Doo never claimed it to be that high.

No, totally understood what you were saying, just supplying the link to the source. I here you on the 161 hp rating on the apex. If it's closer to 150
hp range that will make the sidewinder that much more impressive. all is good

 

[snowbeast]

You are not understanding here.. That dyno run was from his old dyno... THat dyno was not accurate. He later changed his dyno and his numbers were more in line of Yamaha's claim of 3-5hp over the 2010 Apex. The 800R etec never made that 163 again. It was only ever a true 155. Doo never claimed it to be that high.

I don't think jims dyno was not accurate but this was a woody massaged machine that had a air box mod and had a fuel controller on it,if you ask some of the people that were close to this sled and dyno info at the time,some of them have there owne performance shops,they will tell you,that the 2011 apex thru 2016 apex sleds all can run more fuel once the air box has been modded like that sled had been.

 

[SledFreak]

ok... all good..

 

[Big_Phil]

The chart i posted shows the Apex peaking around 110 ft/lbs and staying over 100 ft/lbs most of the way through the power band with the Sidewinder peaking around 125 ft/lbs and holding 120ft/lbs throughout the test band. Sasquatch brings up a good point though. Why don't we see the full dyno RPM range?

Isnt it kind of irrelevant to see the full dyno chart? Its a cvt, not like it pulls rpms through gears. It should always be in the sweet spot of the powerband once you hit it.

 

[snowbeast]

Isnt it kind of irrelevant to see the full dyno chart? Its a cvt, not like it pulls rpms through gears. It should always be in the sweet spot of the powerband once you hit it.

Ya but they still start making power as soon as it is started,ya maybe clutch engagement does not occure till say 3500rpms,but when strapped to a waterbrake dyno,there is no clutch,so once this motor is fired up,its making power,i have had several sleds on dyno's over the years,it all depends on where the equiptment starts running its dionostics at,i have seen as low as 3500 rpms on a few oof my runs,and I have seen them start at 6500 so it kinda depends on time and just what you are after.

 

[Sasquatch]

Unless you're referring to tq before the gear reduction - in which case you're correct. But the clutch sees the reduction so that number is pointless to me.

He is referring to before the gear reduction but every sled I have seen so far gets its torque applied by the clutch. Why you would try to compare it any other way is puzzling! Torque can be increased and is by the gear reduction. So clutch torque is increased while hp because it is a mathematical calculation remains the same and can not be increased by the gear reducer. Multiply torque by 1.29 and 83 becomes 107 while hp remains the same at a slower clutch speed because torque increased at the lower clutch rpm. Its not hockus pockus, its not cheating its simply what the clutch sees, and torque and hp are based on what the clutch sees. Real world its what the track see's that really counts and that is a much lower number and quickly points out just how efficient the drive system is from sled to sled.

 

[Bpatch50]

I wasn't referring to track hp. I was referring to the gear reduction between the crankshaft and the primary clutch. As we both agree, power to the clutch is what's relevant. And at the clutch the apex makes 80-83 tq

 

[Sasquatch]

Isnt it kind of irrelevant to see the full dyno chart? Its a cvt, not like it pulls rpms through gears. It should always be in the sweet spot of the powerband once you hit it.

If dyno is irrelevant then why bother at all. I once said that the EXUP was not needed cause of the CVT and was cut to shreads about it. Curious why they omit half the rev range. Even more curious what it makes in that range.

 

[Sasquatch]

I wasn't referring to track hp. I was referring to the gear reduction between the crankshaft and the primary clutch. As we both agree, power to the clutch is what's relevant. And at the clutch the apex makes 80-83 tq

No it doesn't! I found the Apex dyno test you talk of and at 8,500 its peak is 83.5 making 135hp. If you plug in torque x rpm divided by 5252 you get 83.5 x 8500 rpm divided by 5252=135.1hp. 72.9 x 10700 divided by 5252 = 148.5. The math shows its crank rpm not clutch rpm. Torque would be 102 at the clutch, rpm would be 6910. Torque is 98 at 7800. At peak hp clutch rpm 8700 torque is 90. So from 5300 clutch rpm to 8700 torque is 90 plus. From 6200 clutch rpm to 7700 100plus.

The nytro with the supercharger made 95 to 98pds of torque from 6600 to 9200 and peak hp of 172 with 6pds boost. Sweet!

Stock it made 88pds from 6100 to 7200. Nice.

 

[Sasquatch]

If it has more HP it has to have more torque or maintain torque at a higher RPM! I guess I don't under stand why every one wants to compare the two? One is NA and one Turboed, the turbo certainly should make more power! The 998 Apex motor at 9lb boost will make 35+ more hp! Now that's a fair comparison!

Just noticed this the Apex will make about 230 to 240 hp at 9 pds boost. Bob with two oo's was he figured 325hp pump gas at around that boost but with a lot more work done, think lots of bucks. The sidewinder is a factory sled and cool because of that and as kviper said of course it makes more torque then the Apex or the hp numbers would suck!

 

[Bpatch50]

Every dyno sheet on DTR shows the apex with max tq of low 80s. I'm more interested in that than anyone's math equations. The Nytro makes more tq than the Nytro and its apparent when they drag race.