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Engine Cuts Out


I picked up the Sidewinder from the dealer and was told that there was moisture in the small tubes that go from the air box to the fuel and boost solenoids. They told me it was freezing in the lines. I am not sold that the problem was moisture. It felt like the kill switch was hit, and why would it go away as soon as you let up on the throttle and only happened at 3/4 throttle and above. I still feel that it was / is electrical and related to a rev limiter or throttle position, but I am basing this on years of working on cars. I had only ridden the sled on two different occasions, had only 500 miles on it, and it sat in a heated shop with a fan on it for 3 weeks in between rides. I am sure it dried out in that amount of time. They also told me the heated shop is the issue and going from a warm shed to the cold outside is the issue, but it was inside an enclosed trailer for almost a day before I got it out and rode it. Then they said it was snow dust and powder getting ingested and causing the moisture. I had to pay out of pocket for the repair since they claimed it was a "maintenance" issue and not a warranty issue. B.S. !! It takes over an hour to take the small hoses off and get the moisture out, so if I can only ride it twice and then have to take it in the shop and tear it down, that will not sit well with me! Last week was spent in the UP, sucking in all sorts of snow and going into and out of the garage up at the house, putting on over 800 miles and never had an issue. So tell me how it is still moisture? I think I got shafted on the warranty part and it was a connection or something that was corrected and I had to pay the shop labor. If this nonsense keeps up there will be a '19 Skidoo Turbo in the garage next! I never let the tank get very empty so I can rule out the pickup tube idea, but thanks for the input!
 
69Judge said:
I picked up the Sidewinder from the dealer and was told that there was moisture in the small tubes that go from the air box to the fuel and boost solenoids. They told me it was freezing in the lines. I am not sold that the problem was moisture. It felt like the kill switch was hit, and why would it go away as soon as you let up on the throttle and only happened at 3/4 throttle and above. I still feel that it was / is electrical and related to a rev limiter or throttle position, but I am basing this on years of working on cars. I had only ridden the sled on two different occasions, had only 500 miles on it, and it sat in a heated shop with a fan on it for 3 weeks in between rides. I am sure it dried out in that amount of time. They also told me the heated shop is the issue and going from a warm shed to the cold outside is the issue, but it was inside an enclosed trailer for almost a day before I got it out and rode it. Then they said it was snow dust and powder getting ingested and causing the moisture. I had to pay out of pocket for the repair since they claimed it was a "maintenance" issue and not a warranty issue. B.S. !! It takes over an hour to take the small hoses off and get the moisture out, so if I can only ride it twice and then have to take it in the shop and tear it down, that will not sit well with me! Last week was spent in the UP, sucking in all sorts of snow and going into and out of the garage up at the house, putting on over 800 miles and never had an issue. So tell me how it is still moisture? I think I got shafted on the warranty part and it was a connection or something that was corrected and I had to pay the shop labor. If this nonsense keeps up there will be a '19 Skidoo Turbo in the garage next! I never let the tank get very empty so I can rule out the pickup tube idea, but thanks for the input!
Click to expand...
Boost occurs at 3/4 and above for the most part, so this scenario is possible and stands to reason.
 
I have this same god dam problem. I’m going to describe it again for everyone who is not clear on the problem. It’s not TORS. I have owned Yamahas for a decade I know what TORS is. And I’m quite certain it’s not the rev limiter. The rev limiters on these sleds don’t bog the sled down to almost zero rpms. Unless something changed on the sidewinders from the nytros and vipers. My old nytros would bounce of the limiter on hard pack snow. It did not make the sled bog down. Just sounded funny bouncing off the rev limiter is all that happens. Might not be getting the Best power while bouncing on the limiter. But absolutely by no means will hitting the limiter shut the rpms down this low. And the rev limiter is a much faster paced sound then this problem. This sound is much slower than a rev limiter sound. Anyways the Sled ran great out of the parking lot. 5 miles down the trail it started bogging down at 3/4 to full throttle. At 3/4 to full throttle the sled Boggs down almost to no rpm then a second later it goes full rpm then a second later it will bog down then back to full power. On off on off on off on off for as long as you hold the throttle. The sled still moves while this is happening. It will haul #*$&@ for one second then almost die then haul #*$&@ again. That’s why it wants to buck you off. Full power no power full power no power. It’s not like TORS where the engine won’t rev above 2000 rpms. This fucker revs up just fine then falls on it’s #*$&@. If I shut the sled down for 10 min and fire it up she runs fine for a 5 minutes. Then same problem again. All fucking day. Just got two feet of fresh snow and I was limping around all day. I own two sidewinders. Never had this problem with the first one and it has 1000+ miles. That sled is running TD tune. 290 hp. I always run a blend of race fuel. 25% race gas 75% 91 no ethanol. Anyways this new sled is also running TD tune. The first 24 miles I put on the sled I had a race gas blend in the tank and the sled ran perfect. Today I decided to try only 91 octane pump gas because I’m only running the 270 tune on this sled and TD said I should not need to use a race blend with this tune. So I’m pointing my finger at knock detection was activated all day because of low octane fuel. And I think the sled runs ok at first because the engine is not very warm. Once the engine gets warm the fuel is more susceptible to pre detonation or combustion. This would explain why when we shut our sleds down then they run ok for a few minutes before they start cutting out again. I’m no expert. I’m just guessing here. My first initial thought was my sled was running lean. But I have a new sled with new pump with 24 miles on it. Chances are extreme low. I’m going to call Turbo Dynamics in the morning and see if my problem might be the knock detection. And then I’m going to try a race fuel blend tomorrow and let you guys know what happens.
 
mine did it a few times when new. bypassed the roll valve and never happened again 5kmi. I have read it dumps snot into the intake and blocks pressure sensor. pretty sure many have cured it the same way, besides it would eventually break the tank seal
 
Or bad gas I had the same issue. I narrowed it down to bad gas or ROV
 
When you bypassed your roll over valve you probly also fueled you sled up with fresh fuel and went and tested it out. So no wonder it ran great after that. I don’t think the roll over valve could make the sled run like that. But I could be wrong. Anyways. Just picked up some 110 octane. Heading up the mountain today to test it out. I’ll keep you guys informed.
 
juwalantz said:
I have this same god dam problem. I’m going to describe it again for everyone who is not clear on the problem. It’s not TORS. I have owned Yamahas for a decade I know what TORS is. And I’m quite certain it’s not the rev limiter. The rev limiters on these sleds don’t bog the sled down to almost zero rpms. Unless something changed on the sidewinders from the nytros and vipers. My old nytros would bounce of the limiter on hard pack snow. It did not make the sled bog down. Just sounded funny bouncing off the rev limiter is all that happens. Might not be getting the Best power while bouncing on the limiter. But absolutely by no means will hitting the limiter shut the rpms down this low. And the rev limiter is a much faster paced sound then this problem. This sound is much slower than a rev limiter sound. Anyways the Sled ran great out of the parking lot. 5 miles down the trail it started bogging down at 3/4 to full throttle. At 3/4 to full throttle the sled Boggs down almost to no rpm then a second later it goes full rpm then a second later it will bog down then back to full power. On off on off on off on off for as long as you hold the throttle. The sled still moves while this is happening. It will haul #*$&@ for one second then almost die then haul #*$&@ again. That’s why it wants to buck you off. Full power no power full power no power. It’s not like TORS where the engine won’t rev above 2000 rpms. This fucker revs up just fine then falls on it’s #*$&@. If I shut the sled down for 10 min and fire it up she runs fine for a 5 minutes. Then same problem again. All fucking day. Just got two feet of fresh snow and I was limping around all day. I own two sidewinders. Never had this problem with the first one and it has 1000+ miles. That sled is running TD tune. 290 hp. I always run a blend of race fuel. 25% race gas 75% 91 no ethanol. Anyways this new sled is also running TD tune. The first 24 miles I put on the sled I had a race gas blend in the tank and the sled ran perfect. Today I decided to try only 91 octane pump gas because I’m only running the 270 tune on this sled and TD said I should not need to use a race blend with this tune. So I’m pointing my finger at knock detection was activated all day because of low octane fuel. And I think the sled runs ok at first because the engine is not very warm. Once the engine gets warm the fuel is more susceptible to pre detonation or combustion. This would explain why when we shut our sleds down then they run ok for a few minutes before they start cutting out again. I’m no expert. I’m just guessing here. My first initial thought was my sled was running lean. But I have a new sled with new pump with 24 miles on it. Chances are extreme low. I’m going to call Turbo Dynamics in the morning and see if my problem might be the knock detection. And then I’m going to try a race fuel blend tomorrow and let you guys know what happens.
Click to expand...
I've set off the knock light a few times over the season and it does not react like what you are describing!!! Each time I set off the knock light the power reduction is not noticeable!!!when you shut machine the off it does reset the knock detection and you get full power again!!

Just by chance have you pulled the fuse box and checked for worn/bare wires underneath? I added rubber under fuse box since I had wires rubbing and wearing.
 
Just Talked to mike at Turbo Dynamics. He said this probly is knock detection. So I just ordered data logging feature from TD. I own a flasher so I can install that today. I will be running the sled with the same gas as yesterday and log the issue. I will then put race gas in my sled and see how it runs. I will also log that info. Keep ya guys posted.
 
I will look into the fuse box and wiring. Sled has 70 miles on it so idk. Also going to look into the vent line on fuel tank. I have a feeling this data logging will point the issue out right away. Just waiting for Ben to send me a flasher update.
 
juwalantz said:
When you bypassed your roll over valve you probly also fueled you sled up with fresh fuel and went and tested it out. So no wonder it ran great after that. I don’t think the roll over valve could make the sled run like that. But I could be wrong. Anyways. Just picked up some 110 octane. Heading up the mountain today to test it out. I’ll keep you guys informed.
Click to expand...
I'm not telling you I think it was the problem, I am saying it was the problem. Bought it new for 18, did all my reading on here, fully expected it to happen first frozen morning. and like clockwork it did with maybe 200 miles on it. warmed it up. eased onto lake. tried to go half throttle and it went on/off/on/off, just like most describe. very rhythmic and precise, but no code. I let it happen on 2 different occasions to be sure. went back to camp and bypassed the rov with a piece of pex and never had it happen again. I believe it was best explained as snot in the pressure sensor, that is why no code, the machine saw nothing wrong, just reacting to the reading it got and dropping boost. also, helps prevent tank leak.
 
Mine has done close to what your describing with ROV bypassed. Only mine was way more mild and would actually backfire. Only did it 2-3 times in 7200 miles.
Does your backfire or pop at all?
Definitely fuel related IMO.
ALSO keep in mind fuel levels when testing. Mine seem to do its thing when I was below 1/4 tank.
 
Quick update. Took the sled to a different mountain today. And absolutely no issues. Snow conditions were hard packed. And I was riding at 7900’ instead of 12,000 ft like yesterday. So at this point looks like I’ll have to wait until next year to figure out the problem. I won’t be making any more trips to the big mountain this year. I did check fuel vent hose and I also checked the fuses and wiring. One thing I noticed is that the fuel vent line will only pull air into the tank. Air will not come out of the tank. It’s almost like there is a check valve on the tank where the vent line attaches. And air can go in but can’t get out. Makes sense for rollovers so fuel does not come out of the tank. So if there is pressure in the tank I assume it is ok. Mine had pressure on it today when I opened the cap. But I’m done messing with it for the year. Catch you guys next year.
 
The rollover valve sounds quite plausible for sure. With the oil in the map sensor. I’ll be bypassing both sleds roll over valves next fall. Thanks for the help and input everyone. Love this site.
 
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