SnofishersBuddy
Veteran
It is a bad design. They are contemplating cutting off covering these under the YES plan. Remember in the US you have a 32 month emissions warranty from the date you bought the sled. If they are bad I would make sure your parts get covered under this warranty.
phantomrt
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An old thread...
I just installed a set of the copper gaskets from eBay. The fit and finish is good, but functionally, they don't allow a very good seal. I even ground off about 1/8 inch off of the clamp spacer and gently tapped the clamp as I tightened it down like I usually do on all used v-band clamps. The leak is worse than with the deteriorated originals.
Maybe if your pipes are in perfect dimensional shape they may work okay, but the original style ones are the way to go if you want this to seal. There is just no way that these copper ones are going to work reliability.
I just installed a set of the copper gaskets from eBay. The fit and finish is good, but functionally, they don't allow a very good seal. I even ground off about 1/8 inch off of the clamp spacer and gently tapped the clamp as I tightened it down like I usually do on all used v-band clamps. The leak is worse than with the deteriorated originals.
Maybe if your pipes are in perfect dimensional shape they may work okay, but the original style ones are the way to go if you want this to seal. There is just no way that these copper ones are going to work reliability.
Teamblue4
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I always replace with the OEM gaskets.
phantomrt
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Yes, I feel that is wise. Throughout my internet searching, I never actually found a review on these copper donuts. All I ever saw was something along the lines of "I received them yesterday and installed them." And that's it. The conversations never went beyond that. Having something in place there to keep the joint tight will likely prevent the exhaust parts from wearing through, but the leak isn't fixed by these things. I will have to cut my losses on the copper and get a hold of the yammy dealer.
thor452
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everyone that has installed them and reviewed them loves them. I am not sur why you are not getting a good seal. are the flanges still intact on the Y pipes?
thor452
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are you sure it is leaking there? there are many failer points to that exhaust.
I also have had good luck with the copper donuts, but I did put new SS pipes at the same time. In my opinion, that clamp system does leave something to be desired, you have to snug everything up tight before tightening the clamp. I have a feeling you may have missed a crack on your Y pipes, or less likely, on your flex pipes if your exhaust is still noisy. Even if you put a stainless steel donut in there, it should have sealed better than a disintegrated OEM donut. There must be something else wrong.
phantomrt
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The exhaust is not noisy. It just sounds like a Ford pickup with a cracked manifold. I would expect that if the engine could be put under some low rpm load, it would be more evident. The source of the leak is quite obvious
As far as the love reviews, I haven't easily come across
As far as the love reviews, I haven't easily come across
thor452
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how is it obvious? a cracked flex pipe will sound like that too and is very hard to see. they also crack at the two into one at the silencer many times on the top where it is hard to see. also you got them off ebay not seld toyz or ulmer racing so maybe lower quality.
thor452
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http://ty4stroke.com/threads/copper-donut-reviews.133801/ just a few happy people here
phantomrt
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A continuation of my last posting, which got cut off due to some weird web browser issues earlier today:
The exhaust is not noisy. It just sounds like a Ford pickup with a cracked manifold by a trained ear. I would expect that if the engine could be put under some low rpm load, it would be more evident. The general source of the leak is quite obvious, but I am going to head out to the garage soon and triple check. It would not be the first time something like this slipped by me, but it REALLY looks like it is leaking right at the donut flange. You can see the exhaust blow debris away from there at an angle that would suggest no exhaust cracks farther downstream.
As far as the love reviews, I haven't easily come across many. The link previous to this post just shows literally 2 people who chimed in. At least one of them was able to stall the engine by plugging the exhaust, so those sealed up.... at least on most cylinders.
On a side note, Dennis Kirk sells the original style units for $9.99 each. And they are about 23 miles from home. Guess what I did after work today?
The exhaust is not noisy. It just sounds like a Ford pickup with a cracked manifold by a trained ear. I would expect that if the engine could be put under some low rpm load, it would be more evident. The general source of the leak is quite obvious, but I am going to head out to the garage soon and triple check. It would not be the first time something like this slipped by me, but it REALLY looks like it is leaking right at the donut flange. You can see the exhaust blow debris away from there at an angle that would suggest no exhaust cracks farther downstream.
As far as the love reviews, I haven't easily come across many. The link previous to this post just shows literally 2 people who chimed in. At least one of them was able to stall the engine by plugging the exhaust, so those sealed up.... at least on most cylinders.
On a side note, Dennis Kirk sells the original style units for $9.99 each. And they are about 23 miles from home. Guess what I did after work today?
Rich Kay
TY 4 Stroke Guru
When ya put three sets of what Yamaha thinks is right in less than 10k with all the work there is to do it.........hell ya copper is going in!
phantomrt
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The "graphite" donuts are in. Longevity is surely going to be less than that of the copper, but the functionality of the graphite units is superior. Although the copper units could be successful if certain planets align properly, the clamping mechanism doesn't clamp sufficiently tight and/or consistently enough to form the stainless steel pipe to the hard copper. Perhaps if a really soft copper was used that was somehow designed to allow itself to be crushed, it could work. I think brass would be a better option, but still--that isn't going to conform to the exhaust flanges well in a solid form such as these donuts.
I can see the marks on the copper donuts where it actually made contact with the flanges. There was an awful lot of real estate in various places on the donut where no contact occurred. And another indicator of that being the source of the leak: Soot spray around those non-contact areas.
After trying various tricks all last evening and part of this afternoon, the copper never could do the trick, but I got good enough practice to make this all of about a 2 hour job every 4,000 miles. I think I can live with that. Although snowmobiling is much more reliable than in the 1970s, if you are worried about 2 hours of work every 4,000 miles, you either have to give up snowmobiling, make a lot of money to afford a new machine every few years, and/or be willing to take on the debt necessary to own a new one.
Oh, and by the way, lots of people also say that their sleds backfire as an indicator that these donuts are bad. Mine never did that unless the throttle override system was giving me troubles, which a simple adjustment fixed.
Lots of automobiles use very similar "graphite" donut gaskets. They also fall apart, but not nearly as quickly. The difference that I see in the automotive versions is that the two exhaust pieces traditionally clamp the donut in place via spring bolts, whereas the "V" band clamps mash them together firmly, allowing no "give" to the joint.
I think a better solution to this problem is to have the flex pipe fit around the y-pipe and have it sealed up with stainless steel sleeve clamps. Simple, cheap, fast, long-lasting, very effective.
I can see the marks on the copper donuts where it actually made contact with the flanges. There was an awful lot of real estate in various places on the donut where no contact occurred. And another indicator of that being the source of the leak: Soot spray around those non-contact areas.
After trying various tricks all last evening and part of this afternoon, the copper never could do the trick, but I got good enough practice to make this all of about a 2 hour job every 4,000 miles. I think I can live with that. Although snowmobiling is much more reliable than in the 1970s, if you are worried about 2 hours of work every 4,000 miles, you either have to give up snowmobiling, make a lot of money to afford a new machine every few years, and/or be willing to take on the debt necessary to own a new one.
Oh, and by the way, lots of people also say that their sleds backfire as an indicator that these donuts are bad. Mine never did that unless the throttle override system was giving me troubles, which a simple adjustment fixed.
Lots of automobiles use very similar "graphite" donut gaskets. They also fall apart, but not nearly as quickly. The difference that I see in the automotive versions is that the two exhaust pieces traditionally clamp the donut in place via spring bolts, whereas the "V" band clamps mash them together firmly, allowing no "give" to the joint.
I think a better solution to this problem is to have the flex pipe fit around the y-pipe and have it sealed up with stainless steel sleeve clamps. Simple, cheap, fast, long-lasting, very effective.
phantomrt
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It could be worse. You could own a Skidoo or Arctic Cat and replace 3 engines in 10,000 miles.
phantomrt
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Having worked on all sorts of Snowmobiles, Jet skis, 4 wheelers, motorcycles, etc over the years, the overall winner in build quality is Yamaha. BMW may edge it out in motorcycles you dare want to get involved with the Germans, but when there is an "F-you" with the things that do go wrong with them, it is a really big "F-YOU!"
But if I needed a sled in the bush of Alaska, I would still opt for my Arctic Cat 660 4-stroke. Even if it has triple the problems, they can be dealt with using duct tape and bailing wire as at least a temporary solution to get you home. If the Yamaha dies, you die with it.
But if I needed a sled in the bush of Alaska, I would still opt for my Arctic Cat 660 4-stroke. Even if it has triple the problems, they can be dealt with using duct tape and bailing wire as at least a temporary solution to get you home. If the Yamaha dies, you die with it.
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