Front end Mod - Results

[00-NUKE]

What did it do a world of difference at? Cornering or high s

The biggest thing is cornering. If you notice, your spindle camber is completely vertical on a sock Nytro setup. The problem with that is when you corner, the 08 Nytros have sway in the front suspension that gives the spindle a negative camber in the corner that causes the ski and carbide to drag instead of cut. By shaving the ball joint you basically create a pre-load so that it brings your spindle to vertical position during cornering. This also applies more pressure to the forward portion of your outward ski duirng cornering. That allows the outward ski to pull you through the corner. There are two draw backs to this. (1)In a perfect front end geometry both ski's are contributing in the corner. With shaving the ball joint on the Nytro, you are relying on the outer ski to do about 90 percent of the steering. The only way to get the BEST out of your steering ability is to spend th $$$ and upgrade everything to 09 or 2010 geometry. (2) It can cause progressive pressure in the steering. Basically the harder you steer the harder it is to steer (hard steering). To prevent this just turn your rubber spindle boot around backwards. This will apply more pressure to the back of the ski to eliminate darting and reduce hard steering.

 

[YamahaFreak1299]

Re: What did it do a world of difference at? Cornering or hi

The biggest thing is cornering. If you notice, your spindle camber is completely vertical on a sock Nytro setup. The problem with that is when you corner, the 08 Nytros have sway in the front suspension that gives the spindle a negative camber in the corner that causes the ski and carbide to drag instead of cut. By shaving the ball joint you basically create a pre-load so that it brings your spindle to vertical position during cornering. This also applies more pressure to the forward portion of your outward ski duirng cornering. That allows the outward ski to pull you through the corner. There are two draw backs to this. (1)In a perfect front end geometry both ski's are contributing in the corner. With shaving the ball joint on the Nytro, you are relying on the outer ski to do about 90 percent of the steering. The only way to get the BEST out of your steering ability is to spend th $$$ and upgrade everything to 09 or 2010 geometry. (2) It can cause progerssive pressure in the steering. Basically the harder you steer the harder it is to steer (hard steering). To prevent this just turn your rubber spindle boot around backwards. This will apply more pressure to the back of the ski to eliminate darting and reduce hard steering.

Soo... is 2.5mm or 3.5mm the trick to somewhat solving this problem? i know a lot of guys doing 2.5 mm but if i recall correctly you said you had yours machined down 3.5 mm. Is more better?

 

[AKrider]

Re: What did it do a world of difference at? Cornering or hi

The only way to get the BEST out of your steering ability is to spend th $$$ and upgrade everything to 09 or 2010 geometry. (2) It can cause progerssive pressure in the steering. Basically the harder you steer the harder it is to steer (hard steering). To prevent this just turn your rubber spindle boot around backwards. This will apply more pressure to the back of the ski to eliminate darting and reduce hard steering.

Interesting post, I'd not realized the mod to the upper ball joint had that effect. The reservations I've had with the '09 front end for the past two seasons is that I've read guys posting about the same handling issues people posted about the 08's. The '09 geometry didn't appear to completely fix the handling complaints.

 

[00-NUKE]

Re: What did it do a world of difference at? Cornering or hi

The only way to get the BEST out of your steering ability is to spend th $$$ and upgrade everything to 09 or 2010 geometry. (2) It can cause progerssive pressure in the steering. Basically the harder you steer the harder it is to steer (hard steering). To prevent this just turn your rubber spindle boot around backwards. This will apply more pressure to the back of the ski to eliminate darting and reduce hard steering.

Interesting post, I'd not realized the mod to the upper ball joint had that effect. The reservations I've had with the '09 front end for the past two seasons is that I've read guys posting about the same handling issues people posted about the 08's. The '09 geometry didn't appear to completely fix the handling complaints.

Mine was a 2008. I've now upgraded to a 2011 and I am not sure if this mod would still apply to this one? I't seems to handle pretty good as it sits. I think some of the 2009's may have the same issue depending on the release date of the 2009. I also know that it doesn't matter what year you have, if you are riding on stock skiis, you will have problems. They are JUNK! I have C&A XTX and I love'em. Others are recommending simmons and Pilots. What ever you get I would highly recommend getting something wider. It adds a LOT to floatation in the deeper snow and the Nytro's need all the help they can get to keep the nose up!

 

[AKrider]

I've been searching through old posts and researching info on the Nytro front end. The changes they made in '09 make sense. They slackened the caster angle (should increase stability), shortened the tie rods (which will reduce bump steer) stiffened the swaybar, changed the skis (different keel depth). Then in '10 or '11 they put shorter front shocks on the Nytros. The lower front end helps with cornering.

I read a magazine ride report from '09 about the XTX and Doo 1200 and they said the changes made a 30-40% improvement to the Nytro. That seems to match the posts I read on here about guys still having similar complaints with the 09's and later sleds as they did with the '08. My dealer said he didn't feel the FXG2 changes were significant enough to make much difference and they weren't worth the money to convert an '08 to an '09 geometry.

I'm really thinking there is not much that can be done to improve the Nytro front end short of unbolting it and bolting on a custom subframe and a-arms that use geometry identical to a Polaris Rush or IQ.

The Zbros front end looks like it offers adjustment, but I'm wondering if it doesn't matter? Because the a-arms are still mounted pretty much flat when compared to the ground and none of the mounting points are changed in the subframe. You are still stuck within the design envelope of the stock Nytro geometry and probably cannot vary it enough to make any significant gains. The gains I want is for my Nytro is track straight and true through the bumps and hard packed trails at speed. The Polaris Pro-R I rode did this and what was an eye opener for me was when I rode our old, '96 Summit 670 several weeks ago and it was a lot more stable at high speed than my Nytro.

I think that bump steer is causing a lot of the problems with the Nytro's. I can lower my '08 front end and it corners fine with C&A's, but it is still a handful in the bumps and going into a corner with lots of stutters. The front end just does not feel planted. High speed bumps are the same experience.

 

[AKrider]

double post

 

[rj998]

I have a 2011 xtx with usi snowcross edition skis from my rev, these helped a ton, but the steering and darting of this sled SUCKS! Something has to change, if it wasnt for having a supercharger im not so sure this sled would be fun.

 

[grizztracks]

2008 Nytro RTX with upper ball joint mod, steering post relocate and curve skis toed out 1/2" total. No more handling complaints from me.

 

[STAIN]

09 XTX with Curves and Hygear TR front springs and it handles like a dream. Steers a little heavy at low speeds but it goes where you point it.

 

[AKrider]

I think I'm going to have the extra set of upper ball joints I have machined down. I don't see how negative camber will have any effect on straight line stability or bump steer but I'll give it a try.

 

[shadow44]

2008 Nytro RTX with upper ball joint mod, steering post relocate and curve skis toed out 1/2" total. No more handling complaints from me.

Same for me except I have C&As....night and day difference.

 

[rj998]

Is this mod for all years????????

 

[AKrider]

The upper ball joint mod is just for the 08's. The 09's and later Nytros came with the FXG2 geometry that included shorter top a-arms which accomplished the same thing as the ball joint mod. The '09 also has a bunch of other changes I listed in a previous post.

 

[rj998]

Huh......i wonder why my 2011 is ill hadling then....Dunno

 

[AKrider]

That's the thing, the changes they made in '09 were not significant enough to make much of a difference IMO. When I say significant, I mean to correct the issues we have discussed in this thread.