Goodbye Yamaha

[Todd Beenen]

Just go buy a old apex and be happy.

And transplant a 998 in one?

 

[KnappAttack]

I always thought the winder engine was a bit to much power for the pro cross, sense its a stolen design maybe this is why Cat never improved it, there has been some updated parts that were causing some troubles for buyers, talk to a guy last year that was on a black winder he said he had no issues so far with 2000kms on his machine with no tune, he said it didn't need one, talked to another guy in the highlands last year that had a newer winder he paid over 25grand for, he said he had over another 10 grand into his not sure what tune he had but it was fast, it wants to be at that price, he had all the winders issues he had fixed, he was selling the sled in the spring, I often thought what kind of power I could get for my Apex putting over another 10 grand into it, and run her along side a winder down a lake, wonder what the out come would be on these so called old dated Apexes.

I can tell you what would happen if you should add 10K to the dated Apex because I did it. It would be fast and still handle and ride like a dated Apex.

I loved my Apex's back in the day of the first generation. What made it special is the best engine ever put into a snowmobile to date. That said it is no longer a viable machine I would ever entertain to ride again. The 1200 Doo eclipse's the Apex by a long shot IMO for ride, handling, fun factor and reliability, and its at least 100 lbs lighter than the old first gen Apex and 140 lbs lighter than the second gen. I even tried to "go back" to a Apex when they added power steering to it in 2011 without a "complete redesign", Same old sled they had with power steering added is all, rode it for almost 400 miles and said no way am I riding this thing after owning the 1200 Doo's. The good old Apex days had long past for me by that point. I bet I owned over 2 dozen Yamaha four-strokes, I wasn't going back to them as nothing ever changed much for the better. The 1200 Doos were for me during that time.

Nothing I've ever ridden compares to the 998 and ProCross, had a early 2012 ProCross and swore I'd never own another Cat again in my life, but somehow Cat turned around that poor riding, poor handling unreliable pig into what it became in 2017. The few minor things we have to do to make them dead reliable is minor know that we know what they all are.

I'd give up snowmobiling if I had to go back and ride an Apex after it's been eclipsed by the newer sleds on the market. You got the "OLD OUT"DATED" part right at least!

 

[NYTurbo]

Well said Mike. I know a lot of guys thought their Apex was the holy grail, till they rode a Winder . The best thing about the Apex was the motor and that's it. Many guys thought they'd juice up their Apex a bit with a Turbo and show the tuned Winders a thing or two but they were just humiliated. I will say the Apex motor sounds cool boosted.

 

[Crossfire12]

And transplant a 998 in one?

Ya but Apex is way heavy

 

[STAIN]

had a early 2012 ProCross and swore I'd never own another Cat again in my life, but somehow Cat turned around that poor riding, poor handling unreliable pig into what it became in 2017.

This what people don't realize when they say the Procross has not changed since 2012. That chassis may look similar but is SOOOO much better.
People who say it hasn't changed have not ridden one since 2012.,......

 

[jonlafon1]

2012 to 2017 to 21/22 not even close to same geometry and body panels, etc. Way better, way different. Anyone that says is has not changed is just trying to stir the pot and get entertainment out of negative comments. Divisive negative comments tell a lot about a person.

 

[grubf]

I live about 65 miles away from Thief River Falls. Roseau is about the same distance to the east of me. In 2017 I went to TRF the day they built my Sidewinder just to watch the process from start to finish. Interesting fact - the first thing attached to the chassis is the snowflap. There are a lot of sub assemblies. There are a lot of inspectors that do not put any parts on the sled. They just watch. For those of you that think the workforce in TRF is a bunch of hacks I didn't see it. They care. The assemblers can't do anything about the engineering shortfalls. They just put the pieces together.

When I rode Polaris sleds I went and toured the Polaris assembly line. It was much the same as the TRF operation. There is only so much the robots can do. It takes human hands to put them all together. One thing both factories had in common was there was always a dead blow hammer handy to fine tune things when they didn't quite line up. Can't imagine things are much different at 'Doo.

 

[20/80]

I can tell you what would happen if you should add 10K to the dated Apex because I did it. It would be fast and still handle and ride like a dated Apex.

I loved my Apex's back in the day of the first generation. What made it special is the best engine ever put into a snowmobile to date. That said it is no longer a viable machine I would ever entertain to ride again. The 1200 Doo eclipse's the Apex by a long shot IMO for ride, handling, fun factor and reliability, and its at least 100 lbs lighter than the old first gen Apex and 140 lbs lighter than the second gen. I even tried to "go back" to a Apex when they added power steering to it in 2011 without a "complete redesign", Same old sled they had with power steering added is all, rode it for almost 400 miles and said no way am I riding this thing after owning the 1200 Doo's. The good old Apex days had long past for me by that point. I bet I owned over 2 dozen Yamaha four-strokes, I wasn't going back to them as nothing ever changed much for the better. The 1200 Doos were for me during that time.

Nothing I've ever ridden compares to the 998 and ProCross, had a early 2012 ProCross and swore I'd never own another Cat again in my life, but somehow Cat turned around that poor riding, poor handling unreliable pig into what it became in 2017. The few minor things we have to do to make them dead reliable is minor know that we know what they all are.

I'd give up snowmobiling if I had to go back and ride an Apex after it's been eclipsed by the newer sleds on the market. You got the "OLD OUT"DATED" part right at least!

Thanks, the ride has improved alot in the last few years, Doo being the best rear in the business, Poo is close, and Cat is up there to, never had a chance to ride a 21 yet, over 25grand for a Winder here in Canada it better ride nice, your paying for it, that being said i'm happy with what I have, I am not a speed freak just a trail cruiser and my Apex does this just fine.

 

[jonlafon1]

I live about 65 miles away from Thief River Falls. Roseau is about the same distance to the east of me. In 2017 I went to TRF the day they built my Sidewinder just to watch the process from start to finish. Interesting fact - the first thing attached to the chassis is the snowflap. There are a lot of sub assemblies. There are a lot of inspectors that do not put any parts on the sled. They just watch. For those of you that think the workforce in TRF is a bunch of hacks I didn't see it. They care. The assemblers can't do anything about the engineering shortfalls. They just put the pieces together.

When I rode Polaris sleds I went and toured the Polaris assembly line. It was much the same as the TRF operation. There is only so much the robots can do. It takes human hands to put them all together. One thing both factories had in common was there was always a dead blow hammer handy to fine tune things when they didn't quite line up. Can't imagine things are much different at 'Doo.

I’m not one for negativity but here is a list of things I found SO FAR on my 2022 sidewinder. They forgot a decal on the left side upper which I posted pics. Small chip out of plastic. Unless they changed the gas cap assembly they forgot the plastic ring that screws down UNDER the gas cap. And this one I found yesterday and it’s a big deal. I have pulled the skid and was removing the upper idler wheels to put different torsion springs in. ONE of the wheels did not have a snap ring holding that holds the bearing into the upper plastic wheel. Now it’s great they missed it as it was a lot easier to remove. I have also posted a few pics of the tunnel and the rubber heater hose some were puncturing. Definite improvement in that are. Couple minor things both ways but the things I found so far are not encouraging at all. I have no reason to lie about any of this stuff and I always keep it real. Tell it like I see it or found it.

 

[Crossfire12]

Mine is a 2017 only problem I had was oil tank leak, drive shaft bearing by brake after 5000 miles,the ride is great all I have done was maintenance added gps, afr, got to ride a 20 pretty close,, can’t beat the power when tuned, the ride is better than anything else on snow plus 4 stroke all the way. It’s how you ride which determines how the sled will hold up. Example my friends truck is two years old and looks like it’s 10, beats the crap out of it, mines 5 and still looks like new. I ride normal fast

 

[SledFreak]

2012 to 2017 to 21/22 not even close to same geometry and body panels, etc. Way better, way different. Anyone that says is has not changed is just trying to stir the pot and get entertainment out of negative comments. Divisive negative comments tell a lot about a person.

Where Cat screwed up was they should have changed the name of the Procross in 2017. Like the how Polaris renamed the Indy (or what ever its called) in 2020 to the Matrix. Even the 2017 the Procross has changed alot compared to the 2020-2022.

 

[SledFreak]

I’m not one for negativity but here is a list of things I found SO FAR on my 2022 sidewinder. They forgot a decal on the left side upper which I posted pics. Small chip out of plastic. Unless they changed the gas cap assembly they forgot the plastic ring that screws down UNDER the gas cap. And this one I found yesterday and it’s a big deal. I have pulled the skid and was removing the upper idler wheels to put different torsion springs in. ONE of the wheels did not have a snap ring holding that holds the bearing into the upper plastic wheel. Now it’s great they missed it as it was a lot easier to remove. I have also posted a few pics of the tunnel and the rubber heater hose some were puncturing. Definite improvement in that are. Couple minor things both ways but the things I found so far are not encouraging at all. I have no reason to lie about any of this stuff and I always keep it real. Tell it like I see it or found it.

Well, there is a bright side as you maybe missing a bunch of minor parts, but the DOO boys are getting sleds shipped with alot more then 1 part missing and who knows what people will find on the way. Quality will slip during these times as lines are shut down and starting back up at unscheduled times. People leave jobs looking for new jobs and normal supplies chains are scrambled. Next week, I am going to pickup my wifes new 2021 Ford Expedition. I am little worried about it. lol

 

[jonlafon1]

Well, there is a bright side as you maybe missing a bunch of parts, but the DOO boys are getting sleds shipped with a more then 1 part missing and who knows what people will find on the way. Quality will slip during these times are lines are shut down and starting back up at unscheduled times. People leave looking for new jobs and normal supplies are scrambled. Next week, I am going to pickup my wifes new 2021 Ford Expedition. I am little worried about it. lol

Most of findings are minor but still going through and doing mods/checking things.. It just concerns me with some MINOR things forgotten or missed. What else is amiss? The guy that buys a sled and just gas N go with stock stuff and has no desire to mod or dig into things could be very disappointed IMO. Work ethic and general attitudes towards work is lacking in this country. Obviously the "observer" was not observing certain things on my 2022!

 

[Hammer70]

I’m not one for negativity but here is a list of things I found SO FAR on my 2022 sidewinder. They forgot a decal on the left side upper which I posted pics. Small chip out of plastic. Unless they changed the gas cap assembly they forgot the plastic ring that screws down UNDER the gas cap. And this one I found yesterday and it’s a big deal. I have pulled the skid and was removing the upper idler wheels to put different torsion springs in. ONE of the wheels did not have a snap ring holding that holds the bearing into the upper plastic wheel. Now it’s great they missed it as it was a lot easier to remove. I have also posted a few pics of the tunnel and the rubber heater hose some were puncturing. Definite improvement in that are. Couple minor things both ways but the things I found so far are not encouraging at all. I have no reason to lie about any of this stuff and I always keep it real. Tell it like I see it or found it.

they forgot the plastic ring that screws down UNDER the gas cap
They did not forget it they don’t use that anymore from what I recal.

 

[20/80]

Most of findings are minor but still going through and doing mods/checking things.. It just concerns me with some MINOR things forgotten or missed. What else is amiss? The guy that buys a sled and just gas N go with stock stuff and has no desire to mod or dig into things could be very disappointed IMO. Work ethic and general attitudes towards work is lacking in this country. Obviously the "observer" was not observing certain things on my 2022!

You really shouldn't have any concerns at all with your sled, you bought the best of the best and paid a supreme price for it, you seem to know your way around a sled and can turn wrenches and recognize a problem when you see one, not everybody can do that, that's why some riders buy the best at a supreme price so they don't have to worry about build quality, some owners don't have a lick of trouble with there snowmobile but like Mr V he had troubles and had to sadly move on after 34 years of being a faithful supporting Yamaha customer, That's what's concerns me.