Tork
TY 4 Stroke God
gnip134 said:
55-60 prolly best. But at 50 should be ok also, does it get colder than -30 where you sled??
http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF6/680.html
Lazy water wetter works this I know for a fact. On the drilling rig I work on the generator was always shutting down on hot days unless we ran the wash gun spray through the rad. We added two bottles of water wetter and had no problems the rest of the summer nothing else was done.
Mighty
TY 4 Stroke God
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23 Sidewinder SRX
50-50 is fine. Just get an empty gallon jug and pour half a gallon of anti-freeze into it. Then top it and the bottle you poured it from off with water and you now have 2 gallons ready to use 
smokeless1
Pro
To heat exchange or not to heat exchange...the question??
SS is right on this one. Adding ONLY the antifreeze required will improve on the heat transfer. You can improve on heat transfer by using only water, but of course then it could freeze, which obviously is not then a solution. However, you can do things to improve cooling. Adding the additive to aid in the heat transfer will work, as well as using distillled water which by itself will cool better than water with minerals in it. Then add a heat exchanger to improve even more. Why did Yamaha simply put on a heat exchanger, instead of telling everyone to add emulsifiers?? Because for them it was a constant under all temperature conditions and situations, at all levels of operation, such as sea level comparted to 8,000 feet. Principles change depending on a wide lattitude of conditions. So adding a heat exchanger was THE most constant thing to do.
Here is something else to consider. After running 2 mountain machines all last winter and having them overheat in cold, temps, and even in powder conditions, I got frustrated. Everyone told me I MUST have a nasty air bubble in there which was causing it.
Actually, when I got my sled home from winter storage, I found that right from the factory it came with a mixture of GREATER than 80% antifreeze, as it would actually peg out my specifica gravity bulb at that number. I think that the rummies in Japan didn't understand what SS is explaining about thermal dynamics, and figured, as perhaps some of you boys do, that if some is good, MORE MUST BE BETTER. Of course it is not. I pulled all that green crap out of there and started from square one. I also paid for and put on the rear heat exchanger and I literally could not make the machine over heat sitting on the trailer in the sun, in JUNE!! At least it ran for 1/2 hour 45 minutes enough to satisfy me that what I did was going to make a major improvement in how the machine is going to work when I get it on the snow.
But perhaps most important out of what SS is saying is that if we can keep these machines running a bit cooler using the additive, and or a combination of all those things talked about, we can improve the performances of these machines, but the LIFE of these machines will be significantly extended. After all, you can't buy a new machine every year at $10k a pop. AT least that is what my wife keeps telling me.
Finally, LB, although I usually agree with you and align myself with a lot of what your thinking is, clearly if you can draw off more heat to the coolant, and then cause that coolant to exchange to the heat exchangers better, which will increase the heat absortion, and thus make a larger gradient of temps between the heat exchanger and the outside temps with or without the aid of snow hitting them or not hitting them, it will cause better cooling of the engine. Plain and simple. Wick that heat away from the engine and make it stick to the exchanger better, then it simply has to work better.
Thanks for the lesson, SS. It helps to put this in perspective, and your input is welcome.
As my old Daddy used to say, you can bring water to the horses, but if they don't want to drink it, then kick em in the aster, because they won't beable to work for you in the afternoon. What do you expect from a dumb animal that will run back into a burning barn.
SS is right on this one. Adding ONLY the antifreeze required will improve on the heat transfer. You can improve on heat transfer by using only water, but of course then it could freeze, which obviously is not then a solution. However, you can do things to improve cooling. Adding the additive to aid in the heat transfer will work, as well as using distillled water which by itself will cool better than water with minerals in it. Then add a heat exchanger to improve even more. Why did Yamaha simply put on a heat exchanger, instead of telling everyone to add emulsifiers?? Because for them it was a constant under all temperature conditions and situations, at all levels of operation, such as sea level comparted to 8,000 feet. Principles change depending on a wide lattitude of conditions. So adding a heat exchanger was THE most constant thing to do.
Here is something else to consider. After running 2 mountain machines all last winter and having them overheat in cold, temps, and even in powder conditions, I got frustrated. Everyone told me I MUST have a nasty air bubble in there which was causing it.
Actually, when I got my sled home from winter storage, I found that right from the factory it came with a mixture of GREATER than 80% antifreeze, as it would actually peg out my specifica gravity bulb at that number. I think that the rummies in Japan didn't understand what SS is explaining about thermal dynamics, and figured, as perhaps some of you boys do, that if some is good, MORE MUST BE BETTER. Of course it is not. I pulled all that green crap out of there and started from square one. I also paid for and put on the rear heat exchanger and I literally could not make the machine over heat sitting on the trailer in the sun, in JUNE!! At least it ran for 1/2 hour 45 minutes enough to satisfy me that what I did was going to make a major improvement in how the machine is going to work when I get it on the snow.
But perhaps most important out of what SS is saying is that if we can keep these machines running a bit cooler using the additive, and or a combination of all those things talked about, we can improve the performances of these machines, but the LIFE of these machines will be significantly extended. After all, you can't buy a new machine every year at $10k a pop. AT least that is what my wife keeps telling me.
Finally, LB, although I usually agree with you and align myself with a lot of what your thinking is, clearly if you can draw off more heat to the coolant, and then cause that coolant to exchange to the heat exchangers better, which will increase the heat absortion, and thus make a larger gradient of temps between the heat exchanger and the outside temps with or without the aid of snow hitting them or not hitting them, it will cause better cooling of the engine. Plain and simple. Wick that heat away from the engine and make it stick to the exchanger better, then it simply has to work better.
Thanks for the lesson, SS. It helps to put this in perspective, and your input is welcome.
As my old Daddy used to say, you can bring water to the horses, but if they don't want to drink it, then kick em in the aster, because they won't beable to work for you in the afternoon. What do you expect from a dumb animal that will run back into a burning barn.
welterracer
TY 4 Stroke God
Im not totally sold on the idea that its the cure all for the overheating problem!(althought im sure it can help)
But for $7.00 is alot cheaper than a cooler and Lighter!
Just bought a bottle.. its worth a shot.. ill let you all know if it overheats on me this winter with it!
Brian
But for $7.00 is alot cheaper than a cooler and Lighter!
Just bought a bottle.. its worth a shot.. ill let you all know if it overheats on me this winter with it!
Brian
Five pages of point/counterpoint and it all comes down to this right here. :ORCwelterracer said:
welterracer
TY 4 Stroke God
I just put in my water wetter.. If you read the label on the bottle it says that on a dyno test..
50/50 mix.. temp was 212degrees
just water... temp was 210 degrees
50/50 mix with waterwetter temp was 204
just water and waterwetter temp was 192
SO realistically runing this stuff in a sled could only make a 8 degree difference because you run a 50/50mix..
In ONLY a racing enviroment could you see a 20degree drop in temp.. where you would not run any antifreeze..
50/50 mix.. temp was 212degrees
just water... temp was 210 degrees
50/50 mix with waterwetter temp was 204
just water and waterwetter temp was 192
SO realistically runing this stuff in a sled could only make a 8 degree difference because you run a 50/50mix..
In ONLY a racing enviroment could you see a 20degree drop in temp.. where you would not run any antifreeze..
Tork
TY 4 Stroke God
<<<<<<< http://www.rx1.info/viewtopic.php?t=8287 send complaints to Lazy Bastard
_____________________________________________________________
Nice again Brian.
The Water Wetter gives you 4% for $7
A boss seat gives you a 1.5% weight savings for $485
_____________________________________________________________
Nice again Brian.
The Water Wetter gives you 4% for $7
A boss seat gives you a 1.5% weight savings for $485
welterracer said:
rhoag
Expert
Man way to man pages to read it all, but I read most. Here is what I found after reading all of this. I run water wetter mixed with distilled water in my bike for the race track, so I had a bottle of water wetter in the garage. I went out and tested the antifreeze in my new 05 and the damn thing floated all bulbs, indicating that it was good for some ungodly low temps. To much antifreeze. So I sucked some out and added distilled water and 5 oz's of water wetter. We shall see what happens. Overheating is embarasing and not fun.
smokeless1
Pro
rhoag said:
Looks like the same dumbells are setting these machines up in Japan. I think they are using 100% antifreeze which of course is like running on half a tank of coolant. It is therefore, VERY IMPORTANT THAT IF YOU BOUGHT A NEW YAMAHA SLED, TO GET A TESTER AND TEST YOUR UNIT. IF YOU KEEP RUNNING IT WITH THAT MUCH ANTIFREEZE IN IT, THEN YOU ARE RUNNING THE MACHINE AT THE TOP END OF THE HEAT RANGE AND THAT WILL SHORTEN IT'S LIFE BIG TIME. DO YOURSELVES A FAVOR AND GO DO IT RIGHT NOW.
gnip134
Expert
smokeless1 said:
Well, I'm going to be installing that rear cooler next week...and i might as well just flush the whole system and start over with a 60/40 mix.....
Trxster
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I checked my wifes new Mt Vector and it reads 100% antifreeze as well. That would explain it.
Todd
Todd
Tork
TY 4 Stroke God
Wow this is quite a bonus round to this thread if you guys are finding 100%
gnip134
Expert
Well...bought a coolant tester after work.....and guess what.....
Yup....thats right folks.......also solid antifreeze......the needle was pegged...rated over -90 deg protection....lol
Already made my 2 gallons og 60/40 prestone....now...the fun of flushing the system.....any tips?
Yup....thats right folks.......also solid antifreeze......the needle was pegged...rated over -90 deg protection....lol
Already made my 2 gallons og 60/40 prestone....now...the fun of flushing the system.....any tips?
smokeless1
Pro
gnip134 said:
Pull off the side panel, take a garden hose to the the hose connection under the thermostat. Flush away. NOTE tho, that it is hard as heck to get all of that fluid out of the engine. And just hosing away won't get it out of there without stopping and letting it drain down and then refilling it up to max again, over and over again.
You need to do this because lots of those antifreeze solutions DO NOT mix well. Even if they say they do, don't do it. Like mixing synthetic oils, too many unknowns to do it, so just don't.
Once it is clean clear water running out, tip the machine on the drain side and drain out as much as you can. Then use the anti freeze and distilled water, which has no minerals it it. Mineral water will not transfer the heat as well, but more importantly, it can cause some anti freezes to coagulate and turn to sludge. It can also cause more corrosion on the enterior of the engine and in the heat exchangers, so spend the nickle and use distilled water. Then you can use Water Wetter agent to improve the coolant capability to disperse the heat to the heat exchanger. Supposed to work well in reducing over heat issues. Then put a temp guage on there and see how well she is doing. I installed one for about $50 which keeps me informed of conditions in the engine. I just like knowing but I could have some warning if it was about to get hot on me too.
Now ain't this fun??
