Helix angles

[Doc Harley]

When you change the finish angle on the helix, what is being achieved? Or how does this affect thing?
Example: stock 35° to 37°

Ty ...

 

[max rolph]

more engine load and faster up shift.... soo as an example....the steeper (higher angle) the ramp is the easier the clutch's will open loading engine dwn lowering rpm, also less grip on belt....

 

[Doc Harley]

more engine load and faster up shift.... soo as an example....the steeper (higher angle) the ramp is the easier the clutch's will open loading engine dwn lowering rpm, also less grip on belt....

Faster upshift is good. down side, less grip & lower peak RPM?
You can help belt slip with more sec spring tension, yes?

 

[STAIN]

Yes, lower peak RPM.
Loose rule of thumb, @200 rpm change per degree of angle.
You want to grip the belt enough so it doesn't slip, no more. To much grip causes it own set of problems.

 

[Doc Harley]

Yes, lower peak RPM.
Loose rule of thumb, @200 rpm change per degree of angle.
You want to grip the belt enough so it doesn't slip, no more. To much grip causes it own set of problems.

Thank was my thinking. Just enough grip.... Thanks, stain.
I still don't understand why you'd even want to lose that much rpm? Purpose? Common sense (for the simple guy) would be to just leave the finish at 35°

 

[STAIN]

It depends on the shift profile of your primary weight also.
There are many here that don't run that 35 degree helix.
I ran a 45 degree G-Force helix last year on my Winder. I also ran G-Force weights. Stock secondary spring.
I think I may try 43 degrees this year after I tune it.

 

[Doc Harley]

It depends on the shift profile of your primary weight also.
There are many here that don't run that 35 degree helix.
I ran a 45 degree G-Force helix last year on my Winder. I also ran G-Force weights. Stock secondary spring.
I think I may try 43 degrees this year after I tune it.

Understood......PM sent.

 

[max rolph]

shift as quick as you can while maintaining grip and RPM is the goal.... but most times when you shift too quickly it lowers you rpm below HP peek.... there is a balance to be achieved.... years ago we used to use a track dyno and change one item at a time to record what each change did for performance gains. this was also the case with helix's and weights .... we would change back to back and record

 

[1nc 2000]

This is some of the basics.

 

[Doc Harley]

shift as quick as you can while maintaining grip and RPM is the goal.... but most times when you shift too quickly it lowers you rpm below HP peek.... there is a balance to be achieved.... years ago we used to use a track dyno and change one item at a time to record what each change did for performance gains. this was also the case with helix's and weights .... we would change back to back and record

I completely understand your words, it's the getting there, that I'm trying to understand. Ty, Max

This is some of the basics.View attachment 173838

Ty, Tim....I saved that for future reference.

 

[0degC]

Thank was my thinking. Just enough grip.... Thanks, stain.
I still don't understand why you'd even want to lose that much rpm? Purpose? Common sense (for the simple guy) would be to just leave the finish at 35°

You likely don’t want to loose that rpm but the effect of the change in helix. So you need to get the rpm back another way if you choose that helix. Lighter primary weight and or stiffer primary spring. Clutching is always a compromise unless you are changing parts all the time for the game of the day. Do you want to be quick, fast or is backshift what is important to you.

 

[Doc Harley]

You likely don’t want to loose that rpm but the effect of the change in helix. So you need to get the rpm back another way if you choose that helix. Lighter primary weight and or stiffer primary spring. Clutching is always a compromise unless you are changing parts all the time for the game of the day. Do you want to be quick, fast or is backshift what is important to you.

Quick is a priority, fast?!?! 125mpg?? with sacrifice to back shift.

 

[Turboflash]

IMO, clutching/gearing is always a choice of best ET to a given distance, or highest MPH. Or, just best all-around trail.
If we go to a radar run, usually what counts is MPH at finish line. At most drag racing events, ET is what counts. So we all have to choose what gearing/clutching we want based on what we want to achieve. Best clutching/gearing for 1000' MPH is not necessarily same as best clutching/gearing for 1000' ET.

 

[Doc Harley]

IMO, clutching/gearing is always a choice of best ET to a given distance, or highest MPH. Or, just best all-around trail.
If we go to a radar run, usually what counts is MPH at finish line. At most drag racing events, ET is what counts. So we all have to choose what gearing/clutching we want based on what we want to achieve. Best clutching/gearing for 1000' MPH is not necessarily same as best clutching/gearing for 1000' ET.

These sleds are like cars. Lol. Every turbo or supercharger vehicle always, always always enjoyed taller gears then n/a counterparts, with similar power. The difference is the torque and where it comes in at.
So, its my opinion, sleds are the same. And would need to be geared appropriately. And that needs to be the starting point. And that's why I debated the correct gearing. I left room to go a little more, if needed.
The confusion in regards to the cvt is on me. As I have nearly zero background. from what I've gathered while speaking with others is, lite is right. Take out reciprocating weight to add efficiency.
thats probably the difference in going with a straight vs multi angle helix. Helix Choice makes the world go round.
im going to start with a few multi angle helixes 39/41/43/45 I already have. I'm pretty sure I could do myself a favor by just going with a straight helix, taking weight off the arms & spring tensions, putting the motor in the power band throughout the pull.
But, like you say, turboflash.....ill need to wait for weather to come, and to test and verify.
Im not too worried.....just impatient.

 

[fatchance]

These sleds are like cars. Lol. Every turbo or supercharger vehicle always, always always enjoyed taller gears then n/a counterparts, with similar power. The difference is the torque and where it comes in at.
So, its my opinion, sleds are the same. And would need to be geared appropriately. And that needs to be the starting point. And that's why I debated the correct gearing. I left room to go a little more, if needed.
The confusion in regards to the cvt is on me. As I have nearly zero background. from what I've gathered while speaking with others is, lite is right. Take out reciprocating weight to add efficiency.
thats probably the difference in going with a straight vs multi angle helix. Helix Choice makes the world go round.
im going to start with a few multi angle helixes 39/41/43/45 I already have. I'm pretty sure I could do myself a favor by just going with a straight helix, taking weight off the arms & spring tensions, putting the motor in the power band throughout the pull.
But, like you say, turboflash.....ill need to wait for weather to come, and to test and verify.
Im not too worried.....just impatient.

That's where in the sledding world things change drastically. Taller gears are great on the road where ET is King or the typical street race is from a street light. Rip through the shift curve as fast as possible. That just doesn't equate to corner to corner trail riding through the woods or run by somebody on the trail or even on the lake when we shift out completely before hitting Max speed. We have to consider what speed we average and need to launch from. Add to that, backshift is King in the corners when we really don't want to brake, but more just rely on the downshift to plant the skis then punch the throttle at the apex. There is just too many variables when our driveline is treading on ice! That's why clutching is so rewarding. When YOU find exactly what you want it's the best feeling. Then you realize you can do better! Nothing better than a challenge and with all the variables you most likely will never get the perfect set up for your riding conditions unless you are a strictly top speed 1320 ft racer. For me, I have my big tune sled dialed in for what I need. Really excited to work with the 24" Winder with smaller tunes to see if I can give the big tune sled a run for it's money!