Best Helix

[DMCTurbo]

Yes no doubt, I am sure there is a combo out there that would probably give you some gains. Too bad it’s so expensive to get a pile of helixs to test with

Yes expensive is an understatement.

 

[74Nitro]

Don't obsess about helix angles and/or springs too much, as most of the tuning should be done at the primary.
Fine tuning weights doesn't cost much at all.

 

[justinator]

I have to disagree. Sure the primary can usually be tuned to work correctly with whatever helix/spring combo is in there but it does not mean the sled will accelerate or mph the same as another combo. Effeciency for the most part comes from the secondary and he is looking for better mph and probably wouldnt be sad if he gained acceleration in the process. Any testing I do is always same day, back to back so I know my results are accurate and dont end up chasing my tail for weird results skewed by weather and snow conditions. I tried an endless amount of spring/helix combos last winter and in my opinion its very easy to go the wrong way. Ive seen swings of 5-7mph with different springs or helixs all whille turning the correct rpms.

 

[DMCTurbo]

I have to disagree. Sure the primary can usually be tuned to work correctly with whatever helix/spring combo is in there but it does not mean the sled will accelerate or mph the same as another combo. Effeciency for the most part comes from the secondary and he is looking for better mph and probably wouldnt be sad if he gained acceleration in the process. Any testing I do is always same day, back to back so I know my results are accurate and dont end up chasing my tail for weird results skewed by weather and snow conditions. I tried an endless amount of spring/helix combos last winter and in my opinion its very easy to go the wrong way. Ive seen swings of 5-7mph with different springs or helixs all whille turning the correct rpms.

Very well said. You only want the secondary tight enough to not allow the belt to slip then dial in RPMs thru the primary weights and or spring. You can run any helix/spring combo and dial in your target RPM yet as my testing also has shown some combos lack in top end MPH yet may be better for corner to corner. In my case I'm looking for that extra mph to try and be faster than the next guy on the ice.

I have a "go to" setup I throw in for when I plan on trail riding which isn't too often anymore.

 

[0degC]

Has anyone running big gears (1.68 - 1.58) ran a helix with a lower than 35 finish? I'm thinking it may help mph better on long pulls. Was thinking of trying something like a 39-33 or 41-33 or 40-30. I'm talking primarily speed running on ice. Thoughts?

For your application, (mph at a fixed distance on ice) I would try a 37 finish if running a 35 now. A lower finish like 33 will help et (better drag race) but not necessarily anymore mph in a fixed distance. Have to get a few Helix’s to test to be sure. Gets costly lol, I have lots of paper weight Helix’s lol.

 

[jonlafon1]

One thing guys just cant except is running LIGHTER weights. So they try a little bigger helix number and just wont pull enough weight out of the primary. For most they just cant get past running LESS weight.. Heavy is faster right? Some times yes! Big top end numbers Maybe? But its very hard to get past pulling some weight out instead of adding.
Obviously you want to load the primary with as much weight it can pull and still be at target RPM.
Weight profile and where the weight is loaded makes a big difference in up shift and backshift. Belt softness, gears, etc. on and on.. so many variables.. Personal preference . big top and or 0-100 ? How do you want to clutch? 3 roller secondary more forgiving with different helixes and spring pressures.. even the roller material can make a difference.. I have a STM helix with ramps that are very narrow compared to say a stock or Dalton or BDX. When someone posts what helix to run its very tough to give advice. So many variables.
With that being said. I'm willing to give up 2-4 MPH on top end.. I would rather get from 30 to 110 fastest.

 

[74Nitro]

Agree that some tuners just can't wrap their head around the fact sometimes you need lighter weights to go faster.

 

[blevis213]

What helix are most using with the hurricane 240 ss pm tune with big venom clutching for the lakes

 

[SideHogger]

That is what I'm saying. I was at 95 degrees wrap today because I have my Helix's drilled with add 5* holes, on a V1 B/O with stock 35* helix and killed TWO XS belts upon switching to the 300 HP tune. It scaled at 165-303 and you could see the RPM climb pretty high at speeds starting up over 100 MPH on the logs as I look at them. For comparison, the SRX secondary I set at 80 with the new V2 on 35* is 217-372 on stock rollers. And I actually tested it this AM when the shop was cold at 218-402. That is some extreme side pressure and its just a V2 set at 80 on a 35 helix! I keep testing it because I can't believe its as high as it is. I remember when I switched to the Hi-Torque rollers in, I was forced to lighten up on the primary weight a bunch! They messed up my whole clutch package and I started to eat belts again after I thought I had an handle on belt blowing.

Its no wonder we are all over the board on these things! Without me testing on the drill press scale I'd never know how the secondary rollers affect the secondary side pressure! Throw the charts all out the window because they mean nothing with dealing with different rollers, torsion spring twist, etc.

The side pressure means everything to the belt and slippage vs. no slippage. It's why testing on a drill press scale accurately, means so much.

More helix, higher number = less secondary pressure.
Less spring wrap = less secondary pressure.
Easier to roll better rollers = less secondary pressure.

"Sticking", "binding rollers" like the stock Yamaha rollers in my drill press scale make for much higher scale numbers at the start, and even more so at the finish compared to the easy rolling Hi-Torque rollers. So Hi-Torque rollers need much stiffer springs and wraps to equal lighter springs as the stock Yamaha rollers do on the scale. I'm to the point of possibly going back to the sticky Yamaha rollers to apply more secondary pressure, or maybe going back to the heavy Cat springs, even on the XS 825. The XS does not show signs of slippage in the clutches like the 8JP or 8DN other than to just shine up the clutch faces. I have a new Gates Redline belt coming to try as well, we'll se how that one does.

I've done everything I can to lighten things up to make life easier on the primary rollers and make them last longer, but it might just be time to go back to a heavier secondary setup with more side force.

Two XS belts blown in less than 15 min today. I felt one was a freak thing, then the second went 10 min later. Its not pretty. The SAGA continues for the perfect balance and belt longevity. These two XS belts both have about 600 miles on them. And yes, they line up with the Hurricane bar perfectly, however I was allowing 1.5 mm of float which could also contribute to a mis-alignment. I find floating when under power to stick outward on hard acceleration, I may go back to locking the secondary down for no float again too.

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Ok KnappAttack, going through this post and noticed in pictures the silicone tube and what looks like some pvc attached to it. Is this another one of your innovations? Or is this another secret et trick? Lol

 

[KnappAttack]

Ok KnappAttack, going through this post and noticed in pictures the silicone tube and what looks like some pvc attached to it. Is this another one of your innovations? Or is this another secret et trick? Lol

I bet your talking about my boat bilge blower/fan, I have it hooked to a 90* silicone hose and blowing at the inner sheave and belt on the primary. Not sure that it really does much good honestly. Maybe in the slow going, but there's so much wind and cold blowing thru that panel that I don't think it does much when I compare inner sheave temps with my buds winder.

 

[SideHogger]

Hey, a tenth of a second is a tenth of second faster! Lmao…..inquiring minds just gotta know!

 

[SideHogger]

Also, thank you for all your help on this forum.

 

[Fast]

That is what I'm saying. I was at 95 degrees wrap today because I have my Helix's drilled with add 5* holes, on a V1 B/O with stock 35* helix and killed TWO XS belts upon switching to the 300 HP tune. It scaled at 165-303 and you could see the RPM climb pretty high at speeds starting up over 100 MPH on the logs as I look at them. For comparison, the SRX secondary I set at 80 with the new V2 on 35* is 217-372 on stock rollers. And I actually tested it this AM when the shop was cold at 218-402. That is some extreme side pressure and its just a V2 set at 80 on a 35 helix! I keep testing it because I can't believe its as high as it is. I remember when I switched to the Hi-Torque rollers in, I was forced to lighten up on the primary weight a bunch! They messed up my whole clutch package and I started to eat belts again after I thought I had an handle on belt blowing.

Its no wonder we are all over the board on these things! Without me testing on the drill press scale I'd never know how the secondary rollers affect the secondary side pressure! Throw the charts all out the window because they mean nothing with dealing with different rollers, torsion spring twist, etc.

The side pressure means everything to the belt and slippage vs. no slippage. It's why testing on a drill press scale accurately, means so much.

More helix, higher number = less secondary pressure.
Less spring wrap = less secondary pressure.
Easier to roll better rollers = less secondary pressure.

"Sticking", "binding rollers" like the stock Yamaha rollers in my drill press scale make for much higher scale numbers at the start, and even more so at the finish compared to the easy rolling Hi-Torque rollers. So Hi-Torque rollers need much stiffer springs and wraps to equal lighter springs as the stock Yamaha rollers do on the scale. I'm to the point of possibly going back to the sticky Yamaha rollers to apply more secondary pressure, or maybe going back to the heavy Cat springs, even on the XS 825. The XS does not show signs of slippage in the clutches like the 8JP or 8DN other than to just shine up the clutch faces. I have a new Gates Redline belt coming to try as well, we'll se how that one does.

I've done everything I can to lighten things up to make life easier on the primary rollers and make them last longer, but it might just be time to go back to a heavier secondary setup with more side force.

Two XS belts blown in less than 15 min today. I felt one was a freak thing, then the second went 10 min later. Its not pretty. The SAGA continues for the perfect balance and belt longevity. These two XS belts both have about 600 miles on them. And yes, they line up with the Hurricane bar perfectly, however I was allowing 1.5 mm of float which could also contribute to a mis-alignment. I find floating when under power to stick outward on hard acceleration, I may go back to locking the secondary down for no float again too.

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Get rid of the float mines beem locked from day 1 with no problems ,interesting when i try the B/O at 6-3 its too hot to touch the secondary, but the pink at 6-2 runs luke warm on 19 srx

 

[KnappAttack]

Get rid of the float mines beem locked from day 1 with no problems ,interesting when i try the B/O at 6-3 its too hot to touch the secondary, but the pink at 6-2 runs luke warm on 19 srx

I typically always run it locked. Tried it floating just to see how it would do for a period of time. It does not do well floating for me.

I couldn't run a soft spring like the pink if I had to. It will not hold the power for me, but you running it that high is huge belt pressure up top because its bound tight. I run the V2 B/O secondary now for more pressure. Its up at 335 or so on my drill press scale. Any lower and it can't hold the belt on 300 tunes. The B/O is not a real stiff spring like some of the heavier Cat springs, which actually work damn well.

 

[JPS]

Are you still running the heelclickers in your primary?

I have a set of heavy hitters since my Viper turbo. Gonna test them on my Sidewinder. My new Sidewinders stock helix is reverse 35/39 with pink Yamaha spring and it don't work so good with the heavy hitters.

On my Viper turbo I have good luck with progressive helix and old cat yellow spring. What I can see nowone sell Dalton springs in Sweden? Only TP, Yamaha and the old cat springs.

I am also running Heavy Hitters, TP orange spring in primary and TP orange in secondary at 3-1. 33/35 TP helix with turbo Dynamics Max 16 TD header and TD closed loop auto tune. I had to keep adding weight as i kept changing my set up, started with just Max16 2 bar, then went to TD header and 3 bar then to closed loop and 4 bar and now at 70 grams with the Heavy hitters. I dont lake race, this is a trail sled and at 6700 miles i never blew a belt, clutches are never more than luke warm even after a very long wide open run. i use the stock gearing 21 41 2018 XTX 141. XS 825 belt. more than anything correct clutch alignment and keeping clutches spotless clean and wear parts maintained contributes a lot to belt life. I do have a lot of venting inward and exit to move a lot of cold air through the engine compartment. for groomed trail riding in Northern Maine this set up works well, sled runs awesome.